Go Back   The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > Technical Help Forum
Register FAQ Image Gallery Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3rd April 2022, 13:16   #1
N00b
Regular poster
 
MG ZT-T

Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: South Shields
Posts: 42
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default Bleeding brakes.....(in both senses)

The story so far. my 2006 ZTT failed its MOT on a few issues, a corroded/leaking offside rear brake pipe. The MOT work is all complete now except for the fact that my mechanic cannot get any fluid through the new pipe he fitted.
After speaking to him yesterday I now know the following.

The pedal depresses fully to the floor.
The fluid level in the reservoir doesn't drop, nor does it leak any fluid.
He thinks one of the master cylinder seals may have been pushed inside out but after doing some reading in here the T4 system seems to get mentioned often, so my questions are:-

A) do the informed minds in here have an opinion on what can be done?
B) Is it likely that I need a new master cylinder and
C) can this job be done without access to a T4 system?

It's the only thing that's stopping me from getting the car back on the road and to say it's frustrating the life out of me doesn't even come close. If I haven't given enough info on the problem please ask.
All help NEEDED welcome.
Thanks in advance.
N00b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2022, 14:00   #2
drewbie
Avid contributor
 
drewbie's Avatar
 
Rover 75 Club SE 1.8T 03 plate.

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kent
Posts: 197
Thanks: 23
Thanked 25 Times in 23 Posts
Default

I've always used Eezi Bleed in the conventional manner, at no more than 20 psi without any problems.
drewbie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to drewbie For This Useful Post:
Old 3rd April 2022, 14:29   #3
T-Cut
This is my second home
 
Rover75 and Mreg Corsa.

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin)
Posts: 21,714
Thanks: 341
Thanked 3,635 Times in 2,914 Posts
Default

The MGR Workshop Manual doesn't mention T4 in the section on brake bleeding. However, some forum members say it's the only way to purge air from the servo unit. I guess if any air has somehow gotten into the servo, then presumably so. Most brake bleeding (I'd suggest over 95%) will be done without a T4.

As to your specific problem, if the fluid level in the reservoir remains constant, after repeated full stroke pumpings, the master cylinder must be faulty. There's no other logical explanation.
TC
T-Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2022, 15:58   #4
N00b
Regular poster
 
MG ZT-T

Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: South Shields
Posts: 42
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Thanks for your collective advice so far. Does anyone know if the brake master cylinders are all the same part? I've found one for sale described as part SJC000080. FYI the car is a 2 litre 115bhp diesel.
What would be the way to handle this problem? Try to get it plugged into a T4 first then if that doesn't cure it replace the master cylinder?
Based on what's been said above am I correct that if the master cylinder is replaced it will definitely need to be plugged into a T4?

Last edited by N00b; 3rd April 2022 at 16:02..
N00b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2022, 16:06   #5
itcaptainslow
Avid contributor
 
Launch 75 Connoisseur V6

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Letchworth
Posts: 119
Thanks: 30
Thanked 40 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Sounds like some air has somehow got into the ABS block-the only way to bleed this effectively and properly is using T4 or PScan to perform a “power bleed” function.
itcaptainslow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2022, 21:27   #6
N00b
Regular poster
 
MG ZT-T

Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: South Shields
Posts: 42
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Can someone PM me Dave Johnsons number? He serviced my car at the back end of last year but I cannot for the life of me find his number.
Thanks again for all your help.
N00b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2022, 01:49   #7
Arctic
Give to Learn
 
Arctic's Avatar
 
Rover 75 Tourer

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 16,599
Thanks: 1,031
Thanked 5,840 Times in 3,533 Posts
Default

Hi David.
have a read of the link below take note of Jules method

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...ad.php?t=63314
__________________
Arctic
Givology Learn to Give
Everything is Achievable

ad altiora tendo.

Check out our Nano meet dates
http://www.midlandsnanomeets.co.uk/

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/index.php?thepage=howto

" You do the work , we supply the expertise "
Arctic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2022, 11:04   #8
SD1too
Doesn't do things by halves
 
SD1too's Avatar
 
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model.

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Middlesex
Posts: 19,009
Thanks: 1,498
Thanked 3,643 Times in 3,087 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N00b View Post
... my mechanic cannot get any fluid through the new pipe he fitted.
Hello David,

Fitting a new length of brake pipe and bleeding the system is a straightforward task. If your brakes were working normally before this work was attempted then any problems have to be down to your mechanic I'm sorry to say. It's not normal for a brake master cylinder seal to be "pushed inside out" by normal brake pedal operation.

To answer your questions in reverse order:

Quote:
Originally Posted by N00b View Post
C) can this job be done without access to a T4 system?
Yes. When the brakes are bled (with the engine not running) all the valves in the ABS modulator are in their default position. This is effectively the same as a length of plain brake pipe. There is therefore no necessity to drive the modulator using T4 for normal bleeding operations. If the modulator has been replaced then it may be a different story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N00b View Post
B) Is it likely that I need a new master cylinder
You need a considered and accurate diagnosis David. What you have at the moment is a guess involving speculative replacement of parts at your expense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N00b View Post
A) do the informed minds in here have an opinion on what can be done?
If this problem has occurred whilst your car was in the care of your mechanic, he is responsible for rectifying it free of charge to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N00b View Post
... am I correct that if the master cylinder is replaced it will definitely need to be plugged into a T4?
No it won't definitely need to be plugged into a T4.

Is he saying that he cannot obtain a flow of fluid from all four bleed nipples or just the one supplied by the pipe he's replaced?

Did he start the engine at any time after the repair work had begun (this may trigger modulator activity)?

Has he used Eezi Bleed as suggested by drewbie? If not, he should.

Good luck!

Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."
Sir Henry Royce.
SD1too is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2022, 12:21   #9
dave lincs
Posted a thing or two
 
Rover 75 Saloon

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louth
Posts: 1,080
Thanks: 324
Thanked 806 Times in 406 Posts
Default

Ok a simple thought on this the brake must have worked before replacing the pipe or the car would have failed the brake performance test, so it must be something he has done ?

Disconnect new brake pipe at front end see if fluid comes through then same at rear if it does

Ps if fluid gets to low then it will need to go on T4 to bleed the system correctly

Dave
dave lincs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2022, 17:20   #10
N00b
Regular poster
 
MG ZT-T

Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: South Shields
Posts: 42
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Update. My guy has used an air powered bleed tool and told me today that he cannot get any fluid from the other three corners. The pipe he replaced was either damaged or corroded through as it was leaking fluid.
N00b is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2006-2022, The Rover 75 & MG ZT Owners Club Ltd