Tragic end to a lovely day

[Plezier]

For a start the owners and driver have committed an offence by not reporting the incident surely. Of course the driver is probably trying to save thier BACKSIDE....yea gods how pathetic!!! by not reporting it hoping that the reg number was not clocked. I would now be making a report to the Police even though they will more than likely be a waste of space and time on this but you have made the report and complaint which will be on file and strengthens your case wiht the highway men ......................... whoops sorry insurers!

Yes I would be expecting the claims company to be chasing those repsonsible that it what they are supposed to be paid for.

[Charles]

Thanks, Plezier. The first thing I did after the accident was to ring the police, but because we were blocking a lane of the M1, the Highways Agency came out to move the car off the road and so the police didn't even bother to come out. As I reported it at the time, I'm not sure there would be much point in reporting it again. I do have an incident number if needed, and I also have photos of both the lorry and the damaged car; also the lorry driver admitted responsibility in the presence of the Highways Agency representatives, so there is no shortage of evidence if needed.

[Plezier]

Having admitted it in front of witnesses then he is a total idiot from not reporting it. If he did and his employers have not acted on it and reported it then they are in the doo-do. The department take a dim view of operators not following the rules so push it as they have much to lose.

[Snetty]

Originally Posted by Charles

Thanks, Avulon, that's good advice. The car is currently on my drive, and it's staying there until the next stage is agreed. My insurance company initially passed the claim to a management company which only deals with claims where the other party is at fault, but when they contacted the company with which the lorry is insured, they found that the owners had not reported the incident, so their insurance company couldn't accept (or deny) liability. My claim was then passed on to my insurers' underwriters. I may be wrong, but my impression is that they think the easy way out is to write it off.

Can I insist that they pursue the matter with the other insurance company? If not, how can I find out who the other insurance company is, and can I take it up with them direct? Apart from anything else, after 35 years' driving without an accident, I don't want to lose my no claims discount!

I work for a large haulier and for smaller claims they do not normally go through the insurance company, certainly my employer has an excess in the many thousands.
My advice is to take it direct especially if its one of the larger companies.

[Charles]

Could do, though it might be a bit late now that my insurers have contacted theirs. As far as I know, there was no damage to the lorry, so the driver may not have reported it; it could be that they knew nothing about it then.

[Rooney]

Originally Posted by Plezier

For a start the owners and driver have committed an offence by not reporting the incident surely.

There's no legal obligation to report a non injury accident to the police at the scene or afterwards unless you have been unable to supply the owner of the damaged vehicle, property or animal with your details.

However, failing to report an accident to your insurance company within a reasonable time could allow them to invalidate your insurance, but only in respect of repairs to your vehicle, not the vehicle, property or animal you hit.

Even though you're claiming from the other driver's insurance company they are able to declare the vehicle beyond economic repair (which would require them to pay you the value of your car).

You can of course decline any offer they make, or issue a counter offer for a non recorded repair.

[Avulon]

Originally Posted by Plezier

For a start the owners and driver have committed an offence by not reporting the incident surely. Of course the driver is probably trying to save thier BACKSIDE....yea gods how pathetic!!! by not reporting it hoping that the reg number was not clocked. I would now be making a report to the Police even though they will more than likely be a waste of space and time on this but you have made the report and complaint which will be on file and strengthens your case wiht the highway men ......................... whoops sorry insurers!

Yes I would be expecting the claims company to be chasing those repsonsible that it what they are supposed to be paid for.

Forget claims companies.

Originally Posted by Snetty

I work for a large haulier and for smaller claims they do not normally go through the insurance company, certainly my employer has an excess in the many thousands.
My advice is to take it direct especially if its one of the larger companies.

Oh that is surely one way (unless self insuring) to certainly get your insurance hiked or lost!


I'm afraid it's not simple is it, it never is. you may well need to 'lawyer up' as the yanks would say. But first try a phone call to the haulier company and see what the response is. You have two goals with that phone call; first is to get them to supply the details of the insurance for that driver. The second is to get them to properly report the incident to the insurer.

Don't even think of letting your insurance itself handle things. They are not on your side!! They exist to make a profit and to minimise their own losses, not to minimise yours. If it suits them they'll agree to whatever is needed to make end the case quickly and at the lowest cost to themselves. If you paid for legal insurance with your insurance then it may be ok to let the legal insurance team handle all the legal stuff, but you can't just leave them to it, or let them direct what happens. Again they aren't really there for you. My advice would be take independant legal advice and try and secure a bona fide accident lawyer to see the case through. I've some bad news there for you though.... Due to some changes in the legal system to streamline and speed up resolution in accident cases then the maximum amount that a solicitor can charge (add to the claim) is decided based on the probable total sum of the claim. For a car that's worth less than £2k and no injury that's not going to be a lot.

A word about 'claims management' companies that your insurance will try to pass you on to. These (surprise, surprise) exist to make a profit from your accident. Not to help you. I had one of these return a vehicle after it was taken to them (advised by the legal insurance team). When their 'damage assessment' amounted to two very poor photographs, and incorrect as well as incomplete damage descriptions and advice to write-off despite neither the vehicle being valued or the cost of repair being estimated. I am sure that had I not insisted on return (and later insurance paid for repairs at 1/4 of the value, most of which were carried out in under 2 hours: following a proper inspection by a motor engineer) that the vehicle would have found it's way to auction and back onto the road in someone else's possession (after making the claims management co a tidy profit). They'll get you a payout by taking the easy route if you're comprehensive insured of claiming off of your own insurance - losing your no-claims bonus in the process.

In summary: best option get your own solicitor, second best is to use the legal insurance (if you took it out with your motor insurance). But main advice is avoid accident management or claims companies: and direct all the proceedings yourself, to claim off of the other driver's insurance. It sounds like they may try and wriggle out of it, so be ready for them to try and blame yourself for what happened.

Good luck.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by Nobby

So sorry to hear what a lousy way to end the day but thankfully no one was hurt.
I may be very wrong but my understanding is that claiming against the lorries insurance they cannot write your car off, but are required to return you to your pre-accident condition; it's your insurers that may want to go down the write off route but it's your car so don't let them get their sticky mitts on it as you'll likely never see it again. Good luck hope your back on the road again soon

Good advice - inform your insurance company of the accident but make sure they understand that you are not claiming from them.

Totally agree with Nobby - do not let the car go anywhere for assessment- you may not get it back.

And if you have involved them and they try to force you then tell them that as they are regulated by the FCA they are obliged to "Treat their customers fairly" - and that you don't feel that their actions indicate that they are.

That usually gets them out of their "Write off anything and everything" tick box mentality - especially when the accident is not your fault.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by Avulon

Forget claims companies.



Oh that is surely one way (unless self insuring) to certainly get your insurance hiked or lost!


I'm afraid it's not simple is it, it never is. you may well need to 'lawyer up' as the yanks would say. But first try a phone call to the haulier company and see what the response is. You have two goals with that phone call; first is to get them to supply the details of the insurance for that driver. The second is to get them to properly report the incident to the insurer.

Don't even think of letting your insurance itself handle things. They are not on your side!! They exist to make a profit and to minimise their own losses, not to minimise yours. If it suits them they'll agree to whatever is needed to make end the case quickly and at the lowest cost to themselves. If you paid for legal insurance with your insurance then it may be ok to let the legal insurance team handle all the legal stuff, but you can't just leave them to it, or let them direct what happens. Again they aren't really there for you. My advice would be take independant legal advice and try and secure a bona fide accident lawyer to see the case through. I've some bad news there for you though.... Due to some changes in the legal system to streamline and speed up resolution in accident cases then the maximum amount that a solicitor can charge (add to the claim) is decided based on the probable total sum of the claim. For a car that's worth less than £2k and no injury that's not going to be a lot.

A word about 'claims management' companies that your insurance will try to pass you on to. These (surprise, surprise) exist to make a profit from your accident. Not to help you. I had one of these return a vehicle after it was taken to them (advised by the legal insurance team). When their 'damage assessment' amounted to two very poor photographs, and incorrect as well as incomplete damage descriptions and advice to write-off despite neither the vehicle being valued or the cost of repair being estimated. I am sure that had I not insisted on return (and later insurance paid for repairs at 1/4 of the value, most of which were carried out in under 2 hours: following a proper inspection by a motor engineer) that the vehicle would have found it's way to auction and back onto the road in someone else's possession (after making the claims management co a tidy profit). They'll get you a payout by taking the easy route if you're comprehensive insured of claiming off of your own insurance - losing your no-claims bonus in the process.

In summary: best option get your own solicitor, second best is to use the legal insurance (if you took it out with your motor insurance). But main advice is avoid accident management or claims companies: and direct all the proceedings yourself, to claim off of the other driver's insurance. It sounds like they may try and wriggle out of it, so be ready for them to try and blame yourself for what happened.

Good luck.

Excellent summary of the reality of how "your" insurance company actually sees "you". You are nothing but a revenue source - end of story.

But you can make them "behave".

Gen up of what the Regulator - the FCA - requires of them

And also be prepared to use a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act to force them to provide you with their decision making rationale in your case. They know that armed with that you would win any case you brought against them with the Financial Ombudsman and so they should start treating you properly.

They get away with shockingly bad service NOT because they are poorly Regulated or that the Law allows them to do this - quite the opposite in fact.

They get away with it because the majority of people allow them to.

[chambl01]

Hopefully you'll get it sorted. Sound advice given by group members too. Happy to read your ok but all the insurance parties are going to give you a whopping headache. Having all this amunition certainly puts you in a good position. Good luck and keep us posted.