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Old 12th January 2021, 20:27   #51
COLVERT
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Originally Posted by RobSun View Post
Now both women have had the fines cancelled. There are no rules on how far you can travel to do exercise, and they were observing social distancing whilst doing so, They have received an apology from Derby-shire Police.
The chief of police was on the tele.---He said his men were told to use their discretion.---Obviously they don't have any.----
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Old 12th January 2021, 20:55   #52
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Using discretion means making decisions and with a relative lack of guidance some decisions will be wrong viewed with the benefit of hindsight. I know I don't always make a right decision, so it's likely policemen do too. To err is human.
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Old 12th January 2021, 20:58   #53
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I suspect that the reason a particular distance was not mentioned in the guidelines is that the government ran up against the same issues as we've been debating, how long is a piece of string.
However what they are trying to achieve is to limit leisure mobility in an effort to reduce transmission where suitable areas for exercise are closer at hand. This is not necessary activity, like going to work, collecting prescriptions, getting food, attending a hospital etc. There is no restriction on them, although in the spirit of the times you should limit mileage if possible.
Maybe there should be a mandatory limit of 5 miles, say, and if you're questioned by the police it's up to the officer whether to accept your justification or not. If you feel a fine wasn't warranted then an appeal would be available.
That would probably be acceptable to most people, but there will always be those who won't agree. Johnson and his 7 miles being one of them. Actually to the edge of the park it's nearer 6 miles to No 10.
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Originally Posted by COLVERT View Post
The chief of police was on the tele.---He said his men were told to use their discretion.---Obviously they don't have any.----

Discretion:

  1. the quality of behaving or speaking in such a way as to avoid causing offence or revealing confidential information.
  2. the freedom to decide what should be done in a particular situation.
I'm betting that they did use their discretion [2], However what the chief meant (in hindsight only) was to ensure they didn't cause offence or reveal any confidential information [1].
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Old 12th January 2021, 23:58   #54
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I'd say nothing at all, you never know when you might need a hand with something

In regard to the other stuff, well let them get on with it, it would pay to remember you will still have to live there, and after making a nuisance compliant it might be a less than pleasant situation dealing with the fallout.

In respect of possible breaches of Covid "rules" along with their application and enforcement, I'm sure if there are others around who are not happy with the situation, then leave it to them to take your neighbour's son and his friend to task over it.

Anyway as an aside to all of this, I was pulled over by the police last evening on the way home and asked what the purpose of my journey was.

The police officer commented that my car number had been pinged as I had travelled into Newcastle city centre, then pinged again as I left shortly afterwards.

He went on to say that in light of this, he had travelled from the west area command (about four miles) specifically to question me

I asked him what relevance my journey was to warrant such an action? his reply was Covid restrictions, then demanded to know why I was apparently becoming belligerent in light of his questions.

You can picture the look on his face when I told him that the purpose of my journey was to pick up my wife from her place of work at the hospital, and that his time might be better spent employed usefully like her, and having just completed a 13 hour shift dealing with Covid patients, she was looking forward to her tea !!

I was fizzing at the absolute waste of resources by someone who was obviously bored

Interpretation of "rules" is fine, squandering the goodwill of the public is not.

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Old 13th January 2021, 22:08   #55
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The chief of police was on the tele.---He said his men were told to use their discretion.---Obviously they don't have any.----
err, yes they do and they used it, they fined the women!
Discretion = the freedom to decide what should be done in a particular situation.
post 53 has another example of discretion

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Old 13th January 2021, 23:38   #56
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err, yes they do and they used it, they fined the women!
Discretion = the freedom to decide what should be done in a particular situation.
post 53 has another example of discretion

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Old 14th January 2021, 10:05   #57
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There are three ways this can go.

If the police take a soft approach there will always be people, like the uni student, who will try and exploit that softness and quite possibly end up using up much more police time and resource than if they'd clamped down early. The majority of people will support the police but a significant proportion will just regard them as weak and ineffective.

A second possibility is that people think that if they trample the blurred edges of restrictions and get a fine, it will be withdrawn if they create a social media stink, so they push the boundaries more and more. This leads to a reduction in compliance and respect for the police.

Another is that because the police take a hard line fewer people are tempted to push at the boundaries and compliance with guidelines is reinforced. Those directly affected by police action may not be happy but most would feel they were being protected,
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Old 14th January 2021, 10:14   #58
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I think the fines have been rescinded and the force and officers slated. Do you think it has helped get members of the public to comply with the rules or led to more pushing the boundaries?

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Old 14th January 2021, 10:28   #59
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And, of course, policing by consent means the consent of the majority, not the minority who commit offences.
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Old 14th January 2021, 10:58   #60
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Originally Posted by marinabrian View Post
...
Anyway as an aside to all of this, I was pulled over by the police last evening on the way home and asked what the purpose of my journey was.

The police officer commented that my car number had been pinged as I had travelled into Newcastle city centre, then pinged again as I left shortly afterwards.

He went on to say that in light of this, he had travelled from the west area command (about four miles) specifically to question me

I asked him what relevance my journey was to warrant such an action? his reply was Covid restrictions, then demanded to know why I was apparently becoming belligerent in light of his questions.

You can picture the look on his face when I told him that the purpose of my journey was to pick up my wife from her place of work at the hospital, and that his time might be better spent employed usefully like her, and having just completed a 13 hour shift dealing with Covid patients, she was looking forward to her tea !!

I was fizzing at the absolute waste of resources by someone who was obviously bored

Interpretation of "rules" is fine, squandering the goodwill of the public is not.

Brian

Typical 'better than you' copper - 'beligerant' for querying his reasons for stopping you - it's the typical police technique to deliberately escalate a situation to gain sufficient grounds to take a stop further. I'd like to think that when asked the purpose of my journey I would do similar in establishing the reason for the stop. It's worth noting that, as you'll know, a policeman can stop a motor vehicle at any time for no reason, but that is solely for the purpose of checking the legality of the driver and vehicle. Once (s)he asks where you've been or what you are doing it changes to a different kind of stop 'stop and account' for which the police need a reasonable suspicion (i can never spell that) or a crime taking place. Guidelines aren't laws and contravening them aren't crimes..... I'd (like to think) that I'd tell him I'd been there (indicating behind me) and was going 'there' (somewhere ahead of me) to carry out my lawful private business.
You're not alone up there. It's not so long ago that NYP stasi got slapped again for deciding to 'man the borders' and repel incomers from higher tier areas.
Mind you, telling him I was transporting an NHS vital worker might have been worth the look on his face..... lol.
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