New speeding fines

[arnosvale65]

""I read a report from a motor lawyer who said that if you are caught speeding just over the limit you should ask for the equipment to be calibrated. You would be well within your rights.
From the Telegraph.

To take account of these factors, the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) suggests police forces don’t prosecute until drivers exceed a margin of error of 10 per cent of the speed limit to take into account driver concentration, plus 2mph for speedometer error.
NPCC speed enforcement guidelines






This means that most police forces will not prosecute until you’re driving at more than 46mph in a 40mph zone, for example, or 79mph in a 70mph zone. However, it should be noted that the guidance is exactly that, and that the decision over whether to give a driver a speeding ticket or not is entirely at the discretion of individual police forces and officers.
In other words, you can already be prosecuted for driving at speeds that are above the limit but below the suggested threshold."

[bikerdude666]

Originally Posted by Cortinadave

the new fines are only if it goes to court... otherwise its just the standard fixed penalty offer.

i reckon thats because a lot are challenging tickets and its clogging up the courts. They just want you to take the fine and go away so try and make it as horrible as possible for those who want to fight a ticket.

Ah right, I missed that bit, explains that then. Her speed course was beneficial though, as I've learned that the police run free courses at Rockingham speedway, policeman sits in your car as you drive around locally, and then gives you a debrief on your driving, and at the end of it they use rockinghams skid pan to teach you how to control the car in a skid and in bad weather. I'll be signing up when I can.

[suzublu]

I never speed

[bl52krz]

Last week I went to an 'Active Citizens Community Speedwatch Awareness & Safety Workshop Course'. The reason was that I had voiced opinions about speeding in my road, which has 20mph limit,joke, and a Primary School in it. We were taught how to use a machine called ' Speedwatch'. This machine will be deployed to different area's within Walsall. At the moment, there is only one machine; cost of it is £2,500. We are hoping to raise some more money so more machine's can be purchased.
We were told that because the machine is not able to be calibrated, we can only report vehicles that exceed 24mph. It does not take photo's, so we must take down reg number,and make of vehicle. The machine works on wi-fi, and sends the speed to a tablet that is held by one of the people taking part in the survey. This is linked to the reports we will give of speeding vehicles. The police will review both items of evidence, and they will send a warning letter to the offenders, the first time, and possibly the second time if they are stupid enough to exceed the 20 mph speed limit. They will then review the previous reports we put in, and if they think that the speeding motorist's have not payed any attention to the warning letters, if their vehicle is reported again for speeding, a police team with speed calibrated camera will be deployed to where they think the speeding is excessive , and all vehicles that exceed the 25mph will be prosecuted. In my opinion that means practically 8 out of 10 will be paying quite a few quid to her majesty, and a few will lose their licence for doing around 40/50/60 and higher. They have already caught many speeders, no insurance, no mot idiots, and this will ensure that our road, hopefully, will be safer for the children, and everyone else. Also quieter and less dust in the air.

[rustymotor]

Originally Posted by murphyv310

Absolutely. I'm roadcraft and IAM trained, one thing though that is never stressed properly is the limit on a section of road is the Maximum for that section, if the road is full of hazards, kids playing, parked cars, cyclists, junctions with poor visibility then the properly trained driver will be well under the speed limit even with the transit up your back, which incidentally will make me lower my speed even more!!

This is the best possible advice, speed kills end of.

Sick to death of white van man with a few parcels trying to get in the boot.

[Alikris]

One car I had, sadly I can't remember what it was, just couldn't keep to 30 mph. The gearbox ratios meant that one gear was too high for 30 and the other was too low, so trying to drive at a constant 30 meant continuously having to change gear. Crazy!

Ali.

[AndyN01]

Hi Rustymotor,

I absolutely agree with the sentiment.

For me it's inappropriate speed that kills.

Hence my opinion that space is the issue. 200+mph on Bonneville salt flats didn't kill Sir Stirling.

130+mph two up on my motorbike in Germany on the autobahn didn't kill me - and we were far from the fastest vehicle.

There's plenty of roads with a national speed limit that at anything over 20mph you'd be lucky not to meet a tree.

Inappropriate speed will cause a collision with possible fatal consequences.

My thoughts go like this:

The "mantra" pushed out is "speed kills"

Every time a motorist "speeds" and doesn't die or cause a death this creates a belief that speed doesn't kill.

This is reinforced over and over again (32 in a 30; 80 in a 70 etc.) so becomes embedded into the psyche of the driver.

The result is that every time that driver reads or hears that "speed kills" they dismiss it as utter rubbish because their experience shows that to be the case.

Add in the huge revenue being created and this pushes the message
that "speed" is the issue even further into "utter rubbish" psyche of a few/some/most drivers.

However valid the argument being presented it will be dismissed/ignored.

IMHO we need to do something about the skill set, hence my thought that the test should be at IAM standard and any motoring infringement would automatically result in a retest.

I haven't got the figures but I'd love to see the number of "accidents" where a police advanced driver was involved when they were NOT on "blues & twos"

I'll bet it's microcosmically small, and possibly nil?

This is because of their skills and the maintenance level of their vehicles.

Very happy to hear other views.

Andy.

[rustymotor]

Hi Andy,

I have to go along with the theory that: Our driving test is totally inadequate and many drivers do not have the skills to drive safely, in part due to unscrupulous ADI's who teach to pass a test and do not teach new drivers to keep themselves and other road users alive.

What many drivers fail to recognise and here refer to your point about space, that for example on a two way road with both sides travelling at 60, both drivers are less than a few feet away from a 120 mph collision with more often than not fatal consequences..

I for one don't know the answer to the problem though, I surmise if more was done at the start of a persons learning to drive, possibly our roads may be a tad safer..excluding foreign truck drivers, drunks, car thieves in a rush, reckless police chases, mechanical failure and more..

[DerekS]

G/son was told by his instructor to keep up to the speed limit . Result ... he always drives as fast as allowed, regardless of any other considerstions .

Speed doesnt kill, stopping can though .

[AndyN01]

Hi Rustymotor,

Yes, absolutely agree.

We live in a society where everything is reduced (dumbed down) to a list of "tick boxes" and providing you "tick" them then everything is OK (it isn't).

Added to that are all the gizmo's:

Traction Control so you can take any bend at any speed regardless of the condition of the road surface.

ABS which obviously means you can stop on a sixpence at 80mph so you can quite safely travel a cars length behind the vehicle in front. (Scotty's line in Star Trek about the Laws of Physics springs to mind).

Air bags so you can crash at any speed and be perfectly OK.

If the worst happens and you're actually injured then medical science will have you fully recovered and back to full health in no time.

Oh, and everything is someone else's fault. Personal responsibility is an alien concept.

The issue is now far too big for a politician to actually do something effective without being "removed" which will have them off the gravy train so that isn't going to happen any time soon. For those that remember Yes Minister I reckon it would be a "courageous" thing for any Secretary of State/Roads Minister to do.

This isn't about a "nanny state" it's about people taking (or being forced to take) responsibility for their actions and skills with effective enforcement.

How about if you can't meet the standard you can't drive. Oh, and it applies to all road users including those from abroad so if you want to drive in the UK you have to pass the UK test. Identity could be confirmed with biometrics so whoever is driving can be quickly checked and confirmed, or otherwise, in the event of an accident/spot check.


DerekS

Scary isn't it!!!!

As far as I am aware the Police advanced test can be "failed" by going too fast for the conditions/hazards and that is after weeks of seriously intense training and practice.

Asking a "newbie" to travel at the speed limit when they are not yet experienced enough to recognise and assess hazards and risk is just stupid.

But it "ticks the box" so that's OK then

It's a bit like giving them a gun and then with just a bit of training asking them to identify and shoot the moving "baddie" in amongst a whole host of moving "goodies" - the vast majority would either hit a "goodie" or miss completely because they don't have the skills needed to assess and decide whether to pull the trigger, or not, at the speed (no pun intended) required. It takes time and quality practice.

Thanks for the discussion,

Andy.