Radiator fans description and operation - Page 2

Keith · 4th May 2007, 17:44

Jules has written an excellent resistor replacement Howto for those with faulty two speed fans.

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...ead.php?t=4638

Jules · 7th June 2007, 10:09

Keith hit Nail on the head so to speak with the Trinary switch explanation ie: with 30 second ON OFF syndrome!
It will shorten the life of the AC compressor too if left like this too long, I've had to change a couple to date.

And I suspect this fault condition does not show on Keiths diagnostic T4 either??

Could be why main dealers say "oh they all do that" as their T4 is not aware of this fault condition.

Keith does the Trinary over pressure switch activation not trigger a fault code?

Keith · 7th June 2007, 10:27

No it does not as the operation of the switch in this respect is assumed to be "normal" i.e it is doing what it designed to do as there could be all sorts of reasons why the Trinary might kick in especially on a very very hot day

Fraser Mitchell · 13th June 2007, 19:27

I just cannot believe that the brushes on this motor are unique to the R75; it just doesn't make sense, so there MUST be brushes available out there somewhere ! Probably for an electric lawnmower !!

Photo shows the name 'Siemens' on the motor cover. If there is a part number on there, this could enable the brushes to be identified.

Jules · 13th June 2007, 19:49

My sentiments entirely Fraser, of all the 1000's of electric motors in the world the 75 cooling motor must have generic brushes!!

Hoovers, drills, compressors, lawnmowers, cooling motors off other cars, pumps, extractors, heater motors............any advance?

ANDY 545 · 30th June 2007, 08:54

Edit by Keith
The following post from Andy may help if after buying a later two speed motor for the CDT you find it still does not work when you turn on the AC

Hi there
Well my car is a 52 plate 03 CDT now the problem Ive got is this, last week had the aircon running in traffic but kept hearing a noise like something engaging then disengaging so I investgated.I found that the fan was not running ay low speed so I thought heard about this one look on the forum.
Now with my fan I span it and started going great but two days later same situation except this time smelt burning like a electric motor dying. Got home had a look nut in middle of fan very very hot so I thought motors gone, got a new motor from ex mg rover dealer (HAD THREE IN STOCK) I know I could have got it cheaper if I shopped around but I had along trip planned and I don't like driving with out a engine cooling fan(TRAFFIC JAMS).
Got the fan part number PG000110, spent most other day fitting it.Now when I fitted it I tested the engine cooling thats Kay could test the air con because the temp sensor went down to -30 pressed for time put the car back together,now temp sensor is back to normal still no air con fan.
Now in the fan packaging there is a modification note (WHICH I BELIEVE I NEED TO DO) and that is:

THIS FAN MOTOR MAY NOT OPERATE ON SLOW SPEED ON LATER MODEL CARS
SHOULD THIS BE THE CASE THEN PLEASE FOLLOW THE MODIFICATION BELOW

CUT THE GREY WIRE AT THE RELAY BOX (FLUSH AGAINST THE RELAY BOX)THEN SPLICE THE REMAINING (LONG) GREY WIRE INTO THE RED/BLUE STRIPED WIRE

Keith · 10th July 2007, 20:53

Here we go troops
Brand new brush measurements.

First thing to note a new one is not radiused at the armature end, instead the end is cut square and is slightly serrated and is obviously designed to quickly wear down to a radius during bedding in.

Brush Length 22mm
Brush Width 9.6mm
Brush Thickness 4.6mm
All four long edges have a very slight chamfer

Copper braid exits centre back of one of the wider sides and is about 1 to 1.5mm thick and about 2mm wide (not easy to measure really)! Braid needs to be capable of carrying say 40-60A and needs to be at least 35mm long.

The Brush, or rather two of them, note how much of the braid has been messed up getting them unsoldered!

Jules · 11th July 2007, 20:41

Cor Keith I'll give you a million quid for those beauties

JohnDotCom · 11th July 2007, 21:35

That looks like its not pure copper braid there Keith to go that bad.
Normally with enough temperature and Watts in Iron surely if copper, it should be cleaner and easier to remove?
Don't suppose it will be easy to fit a new one, or even get them out.

No criticism meant or intended Keith, just wondered why, perhaps just Coated.
...and Jules offer seems good for your retirement Fund

Keith · 12th July 2007, 21:48

I had to apply a lot of heat the get it unsoldered hence the discolouring they may be using a higher temperature solder!

4th May 2007, 17:44	#11
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	Howto for those with faulty two speed fans Jules has written an excellent resistor replacement Howto for those with faulty two speed fans. http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...ead.php?t=4638

7th June 2007, 10:09	#12
Jules This is my second home ZT 260 SE Twilight and 10 other 75 ZT's :O Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Conwy NORTH WALES Posts: 11,094 Thanks: 512 Thanked 1,116 Times in 763 Posts	Keith hit Nail on the head so to speak with the Trinary switch explanation ie: with 30 second ON OFF syndrome! It will shorten the life of the AC compressor too if left like this too long, I've had to change a couple to date. And I suspect this fault condition does not show on Keiths diagnostic T4 either?? Could be why main dealers say "oh they all do that" as their T4 is not aware of this fault condition. Keith does the Trinary over pressure switch activation not trigger a fault code? Last edited by Jules; 7th June 2007 at 10:14.. Reason: Makes sense now

13th June 2007, 19:49	#15
Jules This is my second home ZT 260 SE Twilight and 10 other 75 ZT's :O Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Conwy NORTH WALES Posts: 11,094 Thanks: 512 Thanked 1,116 Times in 763 Posts	My sentiments entirely Fraser, of all the 1000's of electric motors in the world the 75 cooling motor must have generic brushes!! Hoovers, drills, compressors, lawnmowers, cooling motors off other cars, pumps, extractors, heater motors............any advance? __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Newbies do now!! 1. Plenum drains..all 3 or 4 year dependent 2. Cooling fan..All speeds functioning 3. Bonnet cable divider block

30th June 2007, 08:54	#16
ANDY 545 Regular poster Rover 75 Connoisseur SE CDTi Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Nottingham, NOTTINGHAMSHIRE Posts: 89 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Radiator fans description and operation Edit by Keith The following post from Andy may help if after buying a later two speed motor for the CDT you find it still does not work when you turn on the AC Hi there Well my car is a 52 plate 03 CDT now the problem Ive got is this, last week had the aircon running in traffic but kept hearing a noise like something engaging then disengaging so I investgated.I found that the fan was not running ay low speed so I thought heard about this one look on the forum. Now with my fan I span it and started going great but two days later same situation except this time smelt burning like a electric motor dying. Got home had a look nut in middle of fan very very hot so I thought motors gone, got a new motor from ex mg rover dealer (HAD THREE IN STOCK) I know I could have got it cheaper if I shopped around but I had along trip planned and I don't like driving with out a engine cooling fan(TRAFFIC JAMS). Got the fan part number PG000110, spent most other day fitting it.Now when I fitted it I tested the engine cooling thats Kay could test the air con because the temp sensor went down to -30 pressed for time put the car back together,now temp sensor is back to normal still no air con fan. Now in the fan packaging there is a modification note (WHICH I BELIEVE I NEED TO DO) and that is: THIS FAN MOTOR MAY NOT OPERATE ON SLOW SPEED ON LATER MODEL CARS SHOULD THIS BE THE CASE THEN PLEASE FOLLOW THE MODIFICATION BELOW CUT THE GREY WIRE AT THE RELAY BOX (FLUSH AGAINST THE RELAY BOX)THEN SPLICE THE REMAINING (LONG) GREY WIRE INTO THE RED/BLUE STRIPED WIRE __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Last edited by Keith; 13th August 2007 at 09:47..

10th July 2007, 20:53	#17
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	Here we go troops Brand new brush measurements. First thing to note a new one is not radiused at the armature end, instead the end is cut square and is slightly serrated and is obviously designed to quickly wear down to a radius during bedding in. Brush Length 22mm Brush Width 9.6mm Brush Thickness 4.6mm All four long edges have a very slight chamfer Copper braid exits centre back of one of the wider sides and is about 1 to 1.5mm thick and about 2mm wide (not easy to measure really)! Braid needs to be capable of carrying say 40-60A and needs to be at least 35mm long. The Brush, or rather two of them, note how much of the braid has been messed up getting them unsoldered! Last edited by Keith; 8th November 2007 at 19:52..

7th June 2007, 10:27	#13
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	No it does not as the operation of the switch in this respect is assumed to be "normal" i.e it is doing what it designed to do as there could be all sorts of reasons why the Trinary might kick in especially on a very very hot day

13th June 2007, 19:27	#14
Fraser Mitchell Gets stuck in Rover 75 2.5 V6 Club Auto Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Crewe Posts: 898 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I just cannot believe that the brushes on this motor are unique to the R75; it just doesn't make sense, so there MUST be brushes available out there somewhere ! Probably for an electric lawnmower !! Photo shows the name 'Siemens' on the motor cover. If there is a part number on there, this could enable the brushes to be identified.

11th July 2007, 20:41	#18
Jules This is my second home ZT 260 SE Twilight and 10 other 75 ZT's :O Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Conwy NORTH WALES Posts: 11,094 Thanks: 512 Thanked 1,116 Times in 763 Posts	Cor Keith I'll give you a million quid for those beauties __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Newbies do now!! 1. Plenum drains..all 3 or 4 year dependent 2. Cooling fan..All speeds functioning 3. Bonnet cable divider block

11th July 2007, 21:35	#19
JohnDotCom * Rover 75 FaceLift Tourer CDTi 170BHP Auto ConnSE 2005 Model Starlight Silver Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Abergele Posts: 28,735 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	That looks like its not pure copper braid there Keith to go that bad. Normally with enough temperature and Watts in Iron surely if copper, it should be cleaner and easier to remove? Don't suppose it will be easy to fit a new one, or even get them out. No criticism meant or intended Keith, just wondered why, perhaps just Coated. ...and Jules offer seems good for your retirement Fund Last edited by JohnDotCom; 11th July 2007 at 21:41.. Reason: Added Jules Offer

12th July 2007, 21:48	#20
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	I had to apply a lot of heat the get it unsoldered hence the discolouring they may be using a higher temperature solder!