EU vote?

[topman]

Originally Posted by Polly

Are you actually saying that when we voted to join the Common market, the government didn't have any plans either way?

I can't say about that particular one, but it's a general principle as i understand it yes.

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by James.uk

I would love to make some helpfull contribition to this disscussion, but I don't have enough (any) genuine information to do so....

I will however be voting exit, simply because I don't like the way the EU seems to be going...
...

Like me then I am working on my gut feeling that the EU is doomed the way it is going.

[Gman2]

Originally Posted by Saga Lout

If the allowances are £8.4 Billion over six years from 2014/20...that's great but, we're giving over £19 Billion to the EU on Borrowed money each year...Do you think it's a fair return? I don't think it works for me, to put it in a nutshell, I really don't give a damn about the problems in the EU or how it runs its finances, I care about what we are losing from being in this corrupt system that is terrified of being tipped over.

In 2015 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was £4.5 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at about £8.5 billion....

[Astraeus]

Well, what I find mildly amusing and more than a tad worrying is ...

The in camp saying we shoukd stay in when we don't know what will happen if we vote out! When, they actually have no idea what will happen if we stay in!

The EEC ( which started life purely as a trading agreement) snowballed into the EU which is far, far more than that. Some good, more than some bad. It would be a bit better if we had any faith in the EU to sort out the problems within it. Realistic people have no such faith. The problems have become too great. Too engrained with the people who get status and money out of it.

The argument that the UK could not be successful outwith the EU is just as much nonsense as the fact that Scotland could not survive outwith the UK. Sure things might have to change but at least we would be in charge of our own affairs.
There are many parallels with the Scottish independence vote. Scaremongering, threats and a lot of utter nonsense is being put forward to justify the status quo. You will have no pension, you will not be able to trade with the EU. You will not be able to go on holiday to Spain, France, Germany, Greece. What a ridiculous argument the last one is. As is the trading thing. 'We are not going to buy your whisky' 'we are not going to sell you VWs, Renaults and Fiats!' Utter rubbish!
Now the NHS....The recent statements coming from our chancellor and PM that the NHS will be under threat if we exit. Pardon.....? Safe in the hands of G Osboune and DC? Don't make me laugh!
Now having said something about the Govt I turn to our opposition. Jeremy Corbin has long campaigned to get out. Now he is all of a sudden promoting the opposite? In favour of staying in 71/2 ot of 10. Dear oh dear.
We are not being served well by our elected politicians far less than the ones in Europe that we have no say with.
Before all the threats and scare stories I wasn't sure ...now a big X on out box!

Chris

[James.uk]

I do have one reservation with my out vote... and that is that an exit vote gives the "Establishment" a bit more control over me, ...
...

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by Astraeus

Well, what I find mildly amusing and more than a tad worrying is ...

The in camp saying we shoukd stay in when we don't know what will happen if we vote out! When, they actually have no idea what will happen if we stay in!

The EEC ( which started life purely as a trading agreement) snowballed into the EU which is far, far more than that. Some good, more than some bad. It would be a bit better if we had any faith in the EU to sort out the problems within it. Realistic people have no such faith. The problems have become too great. Too engrained with the people who get status and money out of it.

The argument that the UK could not be successful outwith the EU is just as much nonsense as the fact that Scotland could not survive outwith the UK. Sure things might have to change but at least we would be in charge of our own affairs.
There are many parallels with the Scottish independence vote. Scaremongering, threats and a lot of utter nonsense is being put forward to justify the status quo. You will have no pension, you will not be able to trade with the EU. You will not be able to go on holiday to Spain, France, Germany, Greece. What a ridiculous argument the last one is. As is the trading thing. 'We are not going to buy your whisky' 'we are not going to sell you VWs, Renaults and Fiats!' Utter rubbish!
Now the NHS....The recent statements coming from our chancellor and PM that the NHS will be under threat if we exit. Pardon.....? Safe in the hands of G Osboune and DC? Don't make me laugh!
Now having said something about the Govt I turn to our opposition. Jeremy Corbin has long campaigned to get out. Now he is all of a sudden promoting the opposite? In favour of staying in 71/2 ot of 10. Dear oh dear.
We are not being served well by our elected politicians far less than the ones in Europe that we have no say with.
Before all the threats and scare stories I wasn't sure ...now a big X on out box!

Chris

How absolutely right you are Chris.

And from an Englishman's perspective of the Scottish referendum where i think Scotland was very badly served by its then SNP leader Salmond, who was a one trick pony and that pony was an ever increasing oil price: then I think it a real shame that Scotland did not take a leaf out of Ireland and Luxembourg's book and plan to be an International Finance Centre.

And the key to success is being "International" - why limit ourselves to an EU with all its Eurozone "baggage"?

Originally Posted by James.uk

I do have one reservation with my out vote... and that is that an exit vote gives the "Establishment" a bit more control over me, ...
...

I know what you mean - but at least you can try to vote our own politicians out.

With the EU - the 28 Commissioners (one for each member state) being appointed once every 5 years - if we stay in the EU we would be subject to a 27:1 voting system where we have not actually elected even our own EU Commissioner - let alone the other 27....................

What is better?

Originally Posted by topman

Edit not sure why I've got an angry face above.

It's Karma...............................














G'night all

[The Rovering Member]

Originally Posted by Astraeus

Well, what I find mildly amusing and more than a tad worrying is ...

The in camp saying we shoukd stay in when we don't know what will happen if we vote out! When, they actually have no idea what will happen if we stay in!

I think the one thing that we can rely on in that case, is that nothing will change.

Which is, in my case, the deciding factor in my 'out' decision.

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by Gate Keeper

In regards to the pension Ray, I am on the old scheme and Paymaster General pays it. I just hope that Cameron and his cronies, don't mess it up. His scaremongering is misguided and desperate. Silly man to try it on with his elders.

Ray you write with such conviction, power and passion, please do keep posting. A good friend from the opposing camp

Thank you Phil, most kind.

I may be wrong (again!) but I always thought the NHS scheme was effectively an 'occupational' scheme and therefore a separate arrangement from the State Pension. Do you not enjoy both?

In my time with the Pru I wrote many pensions for NHS staff - teachers too as we administered the teachers pension scheme and we would regularly handle lump sum top-ups mainly for those with fewer years' service.

Ah, a new week! Hope for just a little truth tied with a modicum bow of moderation!

[Saga Lout]

Originally Posted by Gman2

In 2015 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was £4.5 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at about £8.5 billion....

So, we gave away £8.5 Billion of borrowed money that we also pick up the interest on for free? It's still better off in our till.
If you then factor in the money taken out of the country by Foreign companies, and then the child benefit claimed by Foreign nationals to send home, and then the money being sent by those who work here to other countries...It's a tidy sum that's not helping our economy to thrive.
If I asked you to go to the bank to borrow £100 to give to a stranger, you would think I'm mad but it's what we do as a country everyday, now that is madness.

[bobthebuilder]

Wise words from the chairman of BT....

It goes by definition that virtually all economists - including Leave economists - believe that leaving the EU will create an economic shock that’s going to take some years to recover from. I think there’s no doubt that everyone in the UK in one way or another will suffer from the economic realities of an exit and because of the long period of uncertainty of a renegotiation of whatever trade treaties that might have to be negotiated"

"And unfortunately that means the weakest in society will suffer the most."