MG ZT 160 - Clutch issue

jabberwock95 · 9th January 2018, 22:11

Hi guys

I'm new to the forum so hopefully this is the appropriate place for this.

I have an 02 plate ZT that I picked up a few years ago for a grand. It's been running well but I was noticing the gear changes were getting a little difficult. I didn't think much of it and sent it in for its annual MOT/service.

Garage drops it off for me, passed its test with an advisory about a worn clutch. Fair enough. The next day I go to drive it - and the clutch pedal goes to the floor. Won't go into gear. They've returned it essentially undrivable.

Being a benefit of the doubt type I give them a call back. The guy is confident it must be the master cylinder that's gone, so agree to pay over £250 for a fix. Repair is done, mechanic is happy. I go to drive the car, and the clutch barely disengages by the time it hits the floor. Pedal has no resistance at all for half the travel, and it's tricky to get into gear.

Getting annoyed at this point I call them again, query whether it may need bleeding. Apparently it's a 'sealed system' that 'doesn't need bleeding' but also 'bleeds itself'. Hmm. Then I'm told since the problem isn't fixed, it must be the slave cylinder which will be close to £800 to replace (along with the rest of the clutch). And if the DMF is gone well...

So between the service, MOT and master cylinder repair I've sunk over £500 into this car and it's not really drivable. Given that I've lost faith in my garage, can anyone tell me... a) was replacing the master cylinder alone a reasonable course of action given the symptoms?.. b) is the stuff I was told about bleeding nonsense, and could it just need bleeding? And finally c) do you know anyone near Leicester that's good with clutches?!

Thanks guys

I'm not especially technical, so any opinions would be useful!

Ravinder · 9th January 2018, 23:43

Surely, the garage should of checked and tested to make sure everything is working when they replaced your master cylinder? From what you’re saying, it sounds like you had these problems immediately after you got your car back...? In which case, I feel the garage has failed to do their job properly...
And, what made them think it was the master cylinder? Did they have evidence that this was the issue? I don’t think they’re self bleeding...I could be wrong but when mine was replaced, it had to be bled manually. It probably is your slave that’s gone. If you look underneath the car where the gearbox is, there is a small hole, the housing. Slip your finger in it and see if it’s wet or if you have any visible leak from it dripping onto the ground. If it is wet, that’s your problem.

jabberwock95 · 10th January 2018, 00:25

According to the mechanic he test drove it and everything was fine. All I know is when I got into it the next morning the clutch pedal felt awful and I had to jam it right to the floor to change gear. It's improved in the sense that it goes into gear at all, but it's certainly not fixed.

His evidence for it being the master cylinder was that he looked at the gearbox and couldn't see any evidence of a leak. Rather annoyingly it wasn't made clear to me beforehand that changing the master cylinder was (in his words now) 'having a punt' at fixing the issue more cheaply. Not much consolation £250 later.

If he'd told me the whole clutch needed changing right off the bat I would've told him to do it, but adding his new quote to what I've already paid takes the total to over £1000. No thanks.

Yorkshire GOC · 10th January 2018, 10:51

See if you can trailer the car to Andy Willi at Doncaster (PM him -see the traders page) - if you source the parts (go for Borg and Beck or Luk) he will do it for much less cost than the 750-800 quoted.

marinabrian · 10th January 2018, 17:58

There are plenty of people who would be prepared to fit a clutch for you, the going rate for a decent quality three part clutch supplied and fitted should be in the £400ish, or if supplying your own parts, no more than £200 labour.

Before you do anything though, nip to Halfords and treat yourself to a Gunson eezibleed kit.

For £20, plus a bottle of brake fluid, you may just surprise yourself

Brian

COLVERT · 10th January 2018, 20:08

As Brian says above. The first thing to do is bleed the clutch. Lots of info on the forum in the HOW-TOs.

wizzo337 · 11th January 2018, 08:15

It's not a sealed system, it's just a NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- to get to everything.
Bleeding it will only cost you time and the cost of brake fluid, not much from Halfords.
If the slave cylinder is gone there should be evidence of brake fluid at the joint between the engine and gearbox below the car, if you look up under the dashboard at the Master Cylinder, this will show you just how much of a NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- it is to get to, you may see fluid leaking from up here, if it is, change the Master Cylinder, I'm doing mine this weekend, with the help of my lovely assistant, (Girlfriend), and will post pictures if I am successful. We did the Slave Cylinder the other week and that went well, it was deffo leaking from there as there was a puddle under the car. Try topping up your Master Cylinder and see how much goes in there, watch out for the stupid rubber seal/boot thing in there.
If all this fails, you are going to have to go in deep and separate the Gearbox and Engine, it's not a massive task, like I said, me and the girl did it in a couple of days, but we were only working in the afternoons as we couldn't be bothered to get out of bed in the mornings and we both have spare cars so were not stuck there.
Best of luck, these cars can be cheap to run/fix if you are a little savvy, I use the local scrap yard a lot for both the ZT and the ZS, and as she loves scrapyards, we treat it as a day out.

mh007 · 11th January 2018, 08:49

As already said, it is definitely not a sealed system nor is it self-bleeding so bleeding the clutch is the first thing to do.
I tend to use a large syringe & flexible tube for topping up the master cylinder.
If the CSC (concentric slave) is leaking, you won't always see traces of fluid from the bell-housing unfortunately.
I purchased a ZT-T 160 from Wigan with a faulty clutch & this turned out to be the slave cylinder. No traces of fluid leakage externally but losing pedal pressure over a period of time, the pedal getting softer even after a short journey.
Bleeding may well do the trick but I have found on many occasions that once either the master or slave fails, the other follows suit so you end up replacing both anyway.
Again as already said, if the slave has to be replaced, replace the other two parts of the clutch at the same time.
The DMF tolerance will be checked when the clutch is removed.
Good luck & I hope you get it sorted.

jabberwock95 · 12th January 2018, 08:43

Thanks for all the help guys! It's good to know I was right to be suspicious when the garage tried various lines about not needing to bleed the system... I won't be going there again.

I could have a bash at bleeding it myself but as luck would have it I found a very helpful chap in Rugby (who reads this very forum!) to do it for me. That way if it does turn out to be the slave cylinder I can hopefully leave it with him for a proper fix.

Thanks again for the help! I think I'll only be using MG specialists (or at least people who come recommended) for my MOT/servicing needs in future!

deanoandrew · 21st January 2018, 21:10

jabberwock95 I am having a very similar story to you currently ! It is just a 2.0 Diesel Tourer, but the same Clutch problems.. I Bought the car in later November and sent it for a service as i was just out of hospital and unable to work on it, My mechanic / friend dropped it back, ten minutes later when i went out to drive it, the gears would not go in. I called him back and once we had eventually found the NAUGHTY WORD diagnosed that the Master was leaking, fluid running down the back of the soundproofing. He then replaced the Master Cylinder and pipe as it come in once piece. He bled the cylinder ( but did not reverse bleed as wizzo337 described in another thread ). A month or so later and only a couple of hundred miles its not selecting gears again ! I am going to bleed again, but assuming Slave is the next problem ( Clutch was replaced in 2010 before my ownership but only done a few K since, car has only done 52k in total )

wizzo337 have you got a write-up of how you removed the box and did the slave ?, i read your excellent description of the master replacement and reckon with insight from someone who has already done it should be able to give it a go.

Thanks all, and Good luck with sorting it jabberwock95

9th January 2018, 22:11	#1
jabberwock95 Newbie MG ZT Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Leicester Posts: 23 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	MG ZT 160 - Clutch issue Hi guys I'm new to the forum so hopefully this is the appropriate place for this. I have an 02 plate ZT that I picked up a few years ago for a grand. It's been running well but I was noticing the gear changes were getting a little difficult. I didn't think much of it and sent it in for its annual MOT/service. Garage drops it off for me, passed its test with an advisory about a worn clutch. Fair enough. The next day I go to drive it - and the clutch pedal goes to the floor. Won't go into gear. They've returned it essentially undrivable. Being a benefit of the doubt type I give them a call back. The guy is confident it must be the master cylinder that's gone, so agree to pay over £250 for a fix. Repair is done, mechanic is happy. I go to drive the car, and the clutch barely disengages by the time it hits the floor. Pedal has no resistance at all for half the travel, and it's tricky to get into gear. Getting annoyed at this point I call them again, query whether it may need bleeding. Apparently it's a 'sealed system' that 'doesn't need bleeding' but also 'bleeds itself'. Hmm. Then I'm told since the problem isn't fixed, it must be the slave cylinder which will be close to £800 to replace (along with the rest of the clutch). And if the DMF is gone well... So between the service, MOT and master cylinder repair I've sunk over £500 into this car and it's not really drivable. Given that I've lost faith in my garage, can anyone tell me... a) was replacing the master cylinder alone a reasonable course of action given the symptoms?.. b) is the stuff I was told about bleeding nonsense, and could it just need bleeding? And finally c) do you know anyone near Leicester that's good with clutches?! Thanks guys I'm not especially technical, so any opinions would be useful!

9th January 2018, 23:43	#2
Ravinder This is my second home Rover 75 saloon x2, Rover 75 Tourer x2, Rover 220 Coupe Turbo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife Posts: 9,036 Thanks: 2,278 Thanked 2,852 Times in 1,718 Posts	Surely, the garage should of checked and tested to make sure everything is working when they replaced your master cylinder? From what you’re saying, it sounds like you had these problems immediately after you got your car back...? In which case, I feel the garage has failed to do their job properly... And, what made them think it was the master cylinder? Did they have evidence that this was the issue? I don’t think they’re self bleeding...I could be wrong but when mine was replaced, it had to be bled manually. It probably is your slave that’s gone. If you look underneath the car where the gearbox is, there is a small hole, the housing. Slip your finger in it and see if it’s wet or if you have any visible leak from it dripping onto the ground. If it is wet, that’s your problem. __________________ Wanted - Indian bride. Cash waiting. (All sorted - bargain) First name and forum name: Ravinder Rover 75 2.0 CDT Connoisseur SE 116 (160 remap) Royal Blue (JFM) This vehicle was the 50,481st 75 to run off the production line, out of 112,381 This vehicle was the 2,238th 75 CDT Connoisseur SE to be made out of 3,775 This vehicle was the 5,002nd 75 in Royal Blue (code: JFM) to be made out of 14,420 Royal Blue 75s

10th January 2018, 10:51	#4
Yorkshire GOC I really should get out more....... Rover 75 connoisseur se v6 auto Join Date: May 2014 Location: Hull Posts: 2,069 Thanks: 1,842 Thanked 623 Times in 469 Posts	See if you can trailer the car to Andy Willi at Doncaster (PM him -see the traders page) - if you source the parts (go for Borg and Beck or Luk) he will do it for much less cost than the 750-800 quoted. __________________ She came off the Longbridge Line on 20-05-2003 The Silver Machine was the 13th of 160 Rover 75's to come off the production line that day and is the 100th of 527 Starlight Silver Rover 75 2.5 V6 Connoisseur SE Auto saloons listed in the build records produced world wide.

11th January 2018, 08:15	#7
wizzo337 Loves to post mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Ely Posts: 288 Thanks: 55 Thanked 87 Times in 52 Posts	Clutch It's not a sealed system, it's just a NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- to get to everything. Bleeding it will only cost you time and the cost of brake fluid, not much from Halfords. If the slave cylinder is gone there should be evidence of brake fluid at the joint between the engine and gearbox below the car, if you look up under the dashboard at the Master Cylinder, this will show you just how much of a NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- it is to get to, you may see fluid leaking from up here, if it is, change the Master Cylinder, I'm doing mine this weekend, with the help of my lovely assistant, (Girlfriend), and will post pictures if I am successful. We did the Slave Cylinder the other week and that went well, it was deffo leaking from there as there was a puddle under the car. Try topping up your Master Cylinder and see how much goes in there, watch out for the stupid rubber seal/boot thing in there. If all this fails, you are going to have to go in deep and separate the Gearbox and Engine, it's not a massive task, like I said, me and the girl did it in a couple of days, but we were only working in the afternoons as we couldn't be bothered to get out of bed in the mornings and we both have spare cars so were not stuck there. Best of luck, these cars can be cheap to run/fix if you are a little savvy, I use the local scrap yard a lot for both the ZT and the ZS, and as she loves scrapyards, we treat it as a day out.

11th January 2018, 08:49	#8
mh007 This is my second home MG ZT260 SE, MG ZT190+, MG ZTT 160, R75 Conn SE 2.0, R75 Conn SE 2.5 X 3, R75 Club SE 1.8, P5B Coupe Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Keynsham, Bristol Posts: 4,211 Thanks: 65 Thanked 635 Times in 499 Posts	As already said, it is definitely not a sealed system nor is it self-bleeding so bleeding the clutch is the first thing to do. I tend to use a large syringe & flexible tube for topping up the master cylinder. If the CSC (concentric slave) is leaking, you won't always see traces of fluid from the bell-housing unfortunately. I purchased a ZT-T 160 from Wigan with a faulty clutch & this turned out to be the slave cylinder. No traces of fluid leakage externally but losing pedal pressure over a period of time, the pedal getting softer even after a short journey. Bleeding may well do the trick but I have found on many occasions that once either the master or slave fails, the other follows suit so you end up replacing both anyway. Again as already said, if the slave has to be replaced, replace the other two parts of the clutch at the same time. The DMF tolerance will be checked when the clutch is removed. Good luck & I hope you get it sorted. Last edited by mh007; 11th January 2018 at 08:51..

10th January 2018, 00:25	#3
jabberwock95 Newbie MG ZT Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Leicester Posts: 23 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	According to the mechanic he test drove it and everything was fine. All I know is when I got into it the next morning the clutch pedal felt awful and I had to jam it right to the floor to change gear. It's improved in the sense that it goes into gear at all, but it's certainly not fixed. His evidence for it being the master cylinder was that he looked at the gearbox and couldn't see any evidence of a leak. Rather annoyingly it wasn't made clear to me beforehand that changing the master cylinder was (in his words now) 'having a punt' at fixing the issue more cheaply. Not much consolation £250 later. If he'd told me the whole clutch needed changing right off the bat I would've told him to do it, but adding his new quote to what I've already paid takes the total to over £1000. No thanks.

10th January 2018, 17:58	#5
marinabrian MG ZT Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 20,151 Thanks: 3,565 Thanked 10,837 Times in 5,718 Posts	There are plenty of people who would be prepared to fit a clutch for you, the going rate for a decent quality three part clutch supplied and fitted should be in the £400ish, or if supplying your own parts, no more than £200 labour. Before you do anything though, nip to Halfords and treat yourself to a Gunson eezibleed kit. For £20, plus a bottle of brake fluid, you may just surprise yourself Brian

10th January 2018, 20:08	#6
COLVERT This is my second home R75 Saloon. Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: France/or Devon. Posts: 14,003 Thanks: 3,851 Thanked 2,167 Times in 1,816 Posts	As Brian says above. The first thing to do is bleed the clutch. Lots of info on the forum in the HOW-TOs.

12th January 2018, 08:43	#9
jabberwock95 Newbie MG ZT Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Leicester Posts: 23 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks for all the help guys! It's good to know I was right to be suspicious when the garage tried various lines about not needing to bleed the system... I won't be going there again. I could have a bash at bleeding it myself but as luck would have it I found a very helpful chap in Rugby (who reads this very forum!) to do it for me. That way if it does turn out to be the slave cylinder I can hopefully leave it with him for a proper fix. Thanks again for the help! I think I'll only be using MG specialists (or at least people who come recommended) for my MOT/servicing needs in future!

21st January 2018, 21:10	#10
deanoandrew Newbie Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Southend On Sea Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	jabberwock95 I am having a very similar story to you currently ! It is just a 2.0 Diesel Tourer, but the same Clutch problems.. I Bought the car in later November and sent it for a service as i was just out of hospital and unable to work on it, My mechanic / friend dropped it back, ten minutes later when i went out to drive it, the gears would not go in. I called him back and once we had eventually found the NAUGHTY WORD diagnosed that the Master was leaking, fluid running down the back of the soundproofing. He then replaced the Master Cylinder and pipe as it come in once piece. He bled the cylinder ( but did not reverse bleed as wizzo337 described in another thread ). A month or so later and only a couple of hundred miles its not selecting gears again ! I am going to bleed again, but assuming Slave is the next problem ( Clutch was replaced in 2010 before my ownership but only done a few K since, car has only done 52k in total ) wizzo337 have you got a write-up of how you removed the box and did the slave ?, i read your excellent description of the master replacement and reckon with insight from someone who has already done it should be able to give it a go. Thanks all, and Good luck with sorting it jabberwock95