Would you Adam and Eve it.. ? - Page 3

MSS · 6th March 2019, 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadget1960

As someone has previously remarked I felt it necessary to reply ... I didn't buy my 75 because it fell into the nice cheap affordable motor category, there are endless choices along those lines, I chose the 75 purely because I liked the overall lines, the fit 'n' finish, the spec, the drive train and so on.
Price or affordability didn't come into the equation when choosing a used car.
Over the years I have had a few brand new cars, each and every one I picked because I liked it based on how it looked and performed and generally looked to the motoring journals for it to be 'rubber stamped' as a good buy.
The problem I have with new cars is this ... none of them excite me in the way my Capri 2.8 special, Sapphire Cosworth, RS 2000 mk2 did at the time. There really is nothing under £30,000 that I would consider spending my hard earned on, sure ... the modern car is loaded with tech and creature comforts and ticks a lot of boxes for the modern buyer but for me ... they just fall into a kind of 'grey' area for choice, imo most modern Euroboxes could wear any badge and most buyers would be none the wiser! When I owned an 94 XJ6 it always got admiring glances because it was instantly recognisable as a Jaguar, the modern Jags need to be pointed out, they are just not individual enough imo.
I suppose it also has a lot to do with the fact that I like to tinker with cars and their mechanicals, it's a deep rooted hobby of mine and modern cars just don't allow you to do it.
If all I had to do to my car was wash it and drive it ... I think I would be very bored with motoring in general.
This is all Just my opinion on modern motoring which counts for nothing here but ... the 60's 70's 80's and 90's imo were the best decades for motoring and choice of chariot and I was so lucky to be a part of it and now it's just all blurring into insignificance.

You, sir, are one of the small minority (I did say the majority buy these cars for their banger prices). You only have to look at the 75/ZT cars for sale on ebay, autotrader etc. and the condition of the majority reflects my view. Also the percentage of people on here who make comments such as "a clutch will cost more than the car's worth". Conversely when a special one comes along with an asking price above banger territory, the seller and the car are invariably attacked by the more vocal of the "enthusiasts".

In my view a car enthusiast will always be able to appreciate cars beyond their ownership. This is where your use of the term "eurobox" undermines your otherwise excellent post and in my mind raises questions around its integrity.

Here are some of the "euroboxes" that I drool over very evening and dream about the day that my lottery numbers come up.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/bri...r-s-sportbrake

https://www.georgekingsley.co.uk/use...ne-assist-2565

https://used.jaguar.co.uk/model-xk#/details/2901620

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/jaguar/f-type

https://stock.mercedes-benz.co.uk/us...001_ppc_100616

Does your 75 still feel special against these "euroboxes"?

marinabrian · 6th March 2019, 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by mss

Does your 75 still feel special against these "euroboxes"?

Maninder, my ZT or indeed my 75 don't feel "special" compared even to my friends Astra van

I've been test driving a few newer cars recently with a view to replacing the ZT, and increasingly it's likely to be either a Volvo V50, or a V70.

Talking of the latter, I drove one belonging to a local member on this very forum, over 1/4 of a million miles and considerably more civilised and better equipped that either the 75 or ZT.

Same bloke who has the Astra van, owns this as well.......

......I can confirm it's much nicer to drive than his C63 it replaces, despite being older

Anyone who considers their R40 to be special, simply hasn't considered that newer and better cars exist to be enjoyed

Brian

MSS · 6th March 2019, 08:15

Brian - thanks for that honest view and I agree.

I actually love my two 75's for their design and ambiance. But, they are not the ultimate in either area. They are also not as well put together as most modern cars. Our two Vauxhalls - 1999 Omega and 2008 Twintop - are better put together. The Twintop is beautifully crafted in modern textured/piano black plastic and brushed aluminum. There are no rattles or creaks from the fascia or door cards when driving.

One could argue that the 45 and 25 were MGR's "euroboxes" but it did not shift enough of them to be able to continue to invest in improving the 75/ZT. MGR actually needed successful euroboxes, as does Jaguar. Jaguar will need to shift cars in volume to survive - my view is that it needs a couple of smaller volume cars in the same way as Mercedes and BMW now produce smaller volume cars.

Dorset Bob · 6th March 2019, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by mss

......................
Here are some of the "euroboxes" that I drool over very evening and dream about the day that my lottery numbers come up.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/bri...r-s-sportbrake

https://www.georgekingsley.co.uk/use...ne-assist-2565

https://used.jaguar.co.uk/model-xk#/details/2901620

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/jaguar/f-type

https://stock.mercedes-benz.co.uk/us...001_ppc_100616

Does your 75 still feel special against these "euroboxes"?

The Jags look okay.

However, if you are planning to get one of those Mercs, you will have to factor in some additional costs.

Like buying a hairdresser shop to park outside.

topman · 6th March 2019, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by mss

Here are some of the "euroboxes" that I drool over very evening and dream about the day that my lottery numbers come up.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/bri...r-s-sportbrake

https://www.georgekingsley.co.uk/use...ne-assist-2565

https://used.jaguar.co.uk/model-xk#/details/2901620

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/jaguar/f-type

https://stock.mercedes-benz.co.uk/us...001_ppc_100616

Does your 75 still feel special against these "euroboxes"?

I like the sportbrake and the f type, the rest meh.

topman · 6th March 2019, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by mss

Jaguar will need to shift cars in volume to survive - my view is that it needs a couple of smaller volume cars in the same way as Mercedes and BMW now produce smaller volume cars.

Agreed. Very difficult though to get into the small premium car market if you aren't already selling them, aston martin tried it with rebadged Toyotas and was a flop. Bmw managed it with the mini though. So it can be done.

MSS · 6th March 2019, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorset Bob

The Jags look okay.

However, if you are planning to get one of those Mercs, you will have to factor in some additional costs.

Like buying a hairdresser shop to park outside.

No need for a shop - Mrs MSS would complement the CLS and the SLK/SLC perfectly"!

RobSun · 6th March 2019, 08:56

I've been test driving a few newer cars recently with a view to replacing the ZT, and increasingly it's likely to be either a Volvo V50, or a V70.

I've got a V50 Brian and can concur that they are very good, well screwed together cars and have to say require a lot less tinkering with. I know Big Russ rates his S60 very highly also, and says its much better to work on and better designed than 75s/ZTs. Mines petrol and my local independent Volvo garage says that they are far more reliable than the diesels and they are pretty good. He says the petrol variants are bullet proof and are the ones to go for even being Mazda/Ford powered. Mine is certainly a lot cheaper to run than the ZTT overall even if the fuel consumption isn't the best.

But it just doesn't have that something that the 75 has, that British traditional class and feel. A 75 may soon be back in my ownership, not for daily usage though, but to join my Dolomite as a week end smile making drive.

Dallas · 6th March 2019, 10:06

What is now possible today, was once thought impossible yesterday... I believe cars have become bigger due to safety reasons, technology has evolved and expanded so much, that design is no longer based on looks, everything is focused on safety now. Its all a case of mass production 24/7 using robots and computers producing identical parts for identical cars.

Lifestyle plays a big part in what people want from their vehicle, and with the ever increasing population becoming unhealthy, this has helped the car design to adapt to our needs when it comes to comfort and ease of access etc.

As for the car enthusiast buying old cars due to cheap banger prices, that's poppycock.

The folk that buy cheap banger cars are not car enthusiasts, they are just regular folk who cant really afford a newer better car. A car enthusiast is a different breed altogether, insurance companies such as Adrian Flux can recognise the difference with certain insurance policies to suit...

I'm sure many cheap banger owners also own a new or newer vehicle, it just a way of having the reinsurance of owning a more reliable newer car. I went out and bought a new car because I wanted the wife and kids to have something newer than driving around in my old bangers, we always had the funds to do so, but I'm an old believer where I prefer money is better left in the bank.

I much prefer the older style vehicles due to their classic shape, cars that were created in an analogue world where designers used pencil and paper to create beautiful elegant designs. I also enjoy what the older classic car represents, its a different world of motoring which easily alienates the modern crazy society that we live in today, never do I want to be the same.

gadget1960 · 6th March 2019, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mss

You, sir, are one of the small minority (I did say the majority buy these cars for their banger prices). You only have to look at the 75/ZT cars for sale on ebay, autotrader etc. and the condition of the majority reflects my view. Also the percentage of people on here who make comments such as "a clutch will cost more than the car's worth". Conversely when a special one comes along with an asking price above banger territory, the seller and the car are invariably attacked by the more vocal of the "enthusiasts".

In my view a car enthusiast will always be able to appreciate cars beyond their ownership. This is where your use of the term "eurobox" undermines your otherwise excellent post and in my mind raises questions around its integrity.

Here are some of the "euroboxes" that I drool over very evening and dream about the day that my lottery numbers come up.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/bri...r-s-sportbrake

https://www.georgekingsley.co.uk/use...ne-assist-2565

https://used.jaguar.co.uk/model-xk#/details/2901620

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/jaguar/f-type

https://stock.mercedes-benz.co.uk/us...001_ppc_100616

Does your 75 still feel special against these "euroboxes"?

You have totally missed the point of the post, when did I say my 75 feels special? and why on earth would I compare my 14 year old R75 to the Makes and models you have listed? how is that even a relevant comparison?.
I didn't buy my 75 because it felt 'special', I bought it because I liked it ... pure and simple, price / condition and age did not come into the equation, it also affords me the luxury of being able to tinker with it when needed for a relatively small outlay and if it all went 'pear shaped' it's not the end of the world.
I can and do appreciate and admire many cars outside of my ownership but that does not mean they excite me to a point of rushing to the showroom to part with my money to own one, if it's not grabbing my attention then to me it's just another Eurobox.
So... you carry on and examine the 'integrity' of my post if it makes you happy, while i reserve the right to be an individual with a short list of specific requirements from my mode of transport and 'blending in' with the ipod / Bluetooth / hybrid / eco set is not on that list.

6th March 2019, 08:15	#23
MSS This is my second home Rover 75CDT, Jaguar XF-S 3.0V6, V'xhall Omega V6 Estate, Twintop 1.8VVT, Astra Estate and Corsa 1.2 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7,085 Thanks: 283 Thanked 624 Times in 440 Posts	Brian - thanks for that honest view and I agree. I actually love my two 75's for their design and ambiance. But, they are not the ultimate in either area. They are also not as well put together as most modern cars. Our two Vauxhalls - 1999 Omega and 2008 Twintop - are better put together. The Twintop is beautifully crafted in modern textured/piano black plastic and brushed aluminum. There are no rattles or creaks from the fascia or door cards when driving. One could argue that the 45 and 25 were MGR's "euroboxes" but it did not shift enough of them to be able to continue to invest in improving the 75/ZT. MGR actually needed successful euroboxes, as does Jaguar. Jaguar will need to shift cars in volume to survive - my view is that it needs a couple of smaller volume cars in the same way as Mercedes and BMW now produce smaller volume cars.

6th March 2019, 08:56	#28
RobSun Gets stuck in MGZTT Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Bradford Posts: 529 Thanks: 148 Thanked 256 Times in 138 Posts	I've been test driving a few newer cars recently with a view to replacing the ZT, and increasingly it's likely to be either a Volvo V50, or a V70. I've got a V50 Brian and can concur that they are very good, well screwed together cars and have to say require a lot less tinkering with. I know Big Russ rates his S60 very highly also, and says its much better to work on and better designed than 75s/ZTs. Mines petrol and my local independent Volvo garage says that they are far more reliable than the diesels and they are pretty good. He says the petrol variants are bullet proof and are the ones to go for even being Mazda/Ford powered. Mine is certainly a lot cheaper to run than the ZTT overall even if the fuel consumption isn't the best. But it just doesn't have that something that the 75 has, that British traditional class and feel. A 75 may soon be back in my ownership, not for daily usage though, but to join my Dolomite as a week end smile making drive.

6th March 2019, 10:06	#29
Dallas This is my second home 1979 Capri 1.6L, 1982 Capri 1.6L, 2016 Dacia Stepway Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dorset Posts: 8,595 Thanks: 3,496 Thanked 3,397 Times in 2,218 Posts	What is now possible today, was once thought impossible yesterday... I believe cars have become bigger due to safety reasons, technology has evolved and expanded so much, that design is no longer based on looks, everything is focused on safety now. Its all a case of mass production 24/7 using robots and computers producing identical parts for identical cars. Lifestyle plays a big part in what people want from their vehicle, and with the ever increasing population becoming unhealthy, this has helped the car design to adapt to our needs when it comes to comfort and ease of access etc. As for the car enthusiast buying old cars due to cheap banger prices, that's poppycock. The folk that buy cheap banger cars are not car enthusiasts, they are just regular folk who cant really afford a newer better car. A car enthusiast is a different breed altogether, insurance companies such as Adrian Flux can recognise the difference with certain insurance policies to suit... I'm sure many cheap banger owners also own a new or newer vehicle, it just a way of having the reinsurance of owning a more reliable newer car. I went out and bought a new car because I wanted the wife and kids to have something newer than driving around in my old bangers, we always had the funds to do so, but I'm an old believer where I prefer money is better left in the bank. I much prefer the older style vehicles due to their classic shape, cars that were created in an analogue world where designers used pencil and paper to create beautiful elegant designs. I also enjoy what the older classic car represents, its a different world of motoring which easily alienates the modern crazy society that we live in today, never do I want to be the same.