Demise of law and order.

[RPWC]

Originally Posted by mss

It surprises me that no one mentions this on the forum given the members' generally strong views in relation to lawlessness.

I suspect capital punishment was partly responsible for the low prison population in the old days.

What are the members' views on capital punishment being brought back for serious crimes i.e. the crimes that would currently receive a sentence of say 10 years or above?

I'm with you on that Maninder, for murder rape tobbery and carrying a knife or gun. Another fatal stabbing today. That's 5? since Friday. When will it end?

[mbev51]

Originally Posted by RPWC

I'm with you on that Maninder, for murder rape tobbery and carrying a knife or gun. Another fatal stabbing today. That's 5? since Friday. When will it end?

Let's have a referendum on it!

[Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by mbev51

Let's have a referendum on it!

Let’s not go there, unless you want to kill the thread and get it closed.

[Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by RPWC

I'm with you on that Maninder, for murder rape tobbery and carrying a knife or gun. Another fatal stabbing today. That's 5? since Friday. When will it end?

Good morning Richard. Last July, a former beauty queen stabbed her boyfriend 22 times and he died. As a result she received the death penalty and is currently on death row in Kenya. We have the death penalty for treason, armed robbery and murder. Most of the time, the death sentence is commuted to life in prison. The police here also carry out extra judicial killings. They often turn a blind eye to locals churning out “the necklace of death” to thieves and the accused, caught by villagers, raping women and children. The usual statement is “we are investigating”.

In the last 12 months in Nairobi, the police shot dead 210 suspects, 1 in 5 of those were shot in the back of the head and 38 police officers lost their lives in the line of duty, statistics online.

There is roughly 10 carjackings per day. The rule/advice is cooperate, do not offer the slightest resistance or complain. Do that and you will be released unharmed. A few years ago on the outskirts of Nairobi, 4 U.S citizens working for the U.N were carjacked in their 4x4. The passengers in the back, said nothing and were left at the side of the road, both OK. The female driver and the front passenger, also a female protested and were both shot dead. Most of us carry a gun or keep a weapon to defend ourselves because there are not enough police to go round. It’s a way of life and one becomes hardened to it.

If the police aren’t on hand, you have to say to yourself, in that moment when you are threatened, could you take another life in defending yourself and live with the consequences?

[MSS]

Originally Posted by mbev51

Let's have a referendum on it!

Let's not, please!

[gadget1960]

In my view prison sentences should fit the crime, murder, rape, armed robbery, acid attacks, knife crime and everything in between... should all come with a lengthy stay (courtesy of her majesties) in THE most inhospitable environment (ala Turkish style nick) and involve back breaking 25 hours per day hard labour and overseen by THE most un-sympathetic guards who love nothing better than cracking skulls with a bat should anyone deviate from the regime.
Once the 'first batch' of degenerates have been dealt with in this way and reinserted back in to society to 'spread the word' I wonder just how many 'would be criminals' would follow suit.
Prison should mean Prison.... complete detachment from society and total withdrawal of all it has to offer, for far too long it has been a 'home from home', and for the repeat offenders it's just a way of life and an accepted hazard of their antisocial lifestyle.
Harsh you may think but .... has anything introduced into the penal system in the last 40 years worked or even made the slightest difference? NO.
Painting cells pink in a bid to introduce a calming state for these repeat/violent offenders back in the 80's did not work and cost the Uk tax payer £3.7 million ?? You can buy a baseball bat from 'sports direct' for under a tenner.

[topman]

Originally Posted by gadget1960

In my view prison sentences should fit the crime, murder, rape, armed robbery, acid attacks, knife crime and everything in between... should all come with a lengthy stay (courtesy of her majesties) in THE most inhospitable environment (ala Turkish style nick) and involve back breaking 25 hours per day hard labour and overseen by THE most un-sympathetic guards who love nothing better than cracking skulls with a bat should anyone deviate from the regime.
Once the 'first batch' of degenerates have been dealt with in this way and reinserted back in to society to 'spread the word' I wonder just how many 'would be criminals' would follow suit.
Prison should mean Prison.... complete detachment from society and total withdrawal of all it has to offer, for far too long it has been a 'home from home', and for the repeat offenders it's just a way of life and an accepted hazard of their antisocial lifestyle.
Harsh you may think but .... has anything introduced into the penal system in the last 40 years worked or even made the slightest difference? NO.
Painting cells pink in a bid to introduce a calming state for these repeat/violent offenders back in the 80's did not work and cost the Uk tax payer £3.7 million ?? You can buy a baseball bat from 'sports direct' for under a tenner.

Sounds like it would work on the face of it, I doubt it would though.
Countries with such prisons have no shortage of inmates, which they shouldn't have but have. I think that says something.

[wraymond]

Quote:

GADGET

In my view prison sentences should fit the crime, murder, rape, armed robbery, acid attacks, knife crime and everything in between... should all come with a lengthy stay (courtesy of her majesties) in THE most inhospitable environment (ala Turkish style nick) and involve back breaking 25 hours per day hard labour and overseen by THE most un-sympathetic guards who love nothing better than cracking skulls with a bat should anyone deviate from the regime.
Once the 'first batch' of degenerates have been dealt with in this way and reinserted back in to society to 'spread the word' I wonder just how many 'would be criminals' would follow suit.
Prison should mean Prison.... complete detachment from society and total withdrawal of all it has to offer, for far too long it has been a 'home from home', and for the repeat offenders it's just a way of life and an accepted hazard of their antisocial lifestyle.
Harsh you may think but .... has anything introduced into the penal system in the last 40 years worked or even made the slightest difference? NO.
Painting cells pink in a bid to introduce a calming state for these repeat/violent offenders back in the 80's did not work and cost the Uk tax payer £3.7 million ?? You can buy a baseball bat from 'sports direct' for under a tenner. (Quote)





It would certainly be feared but would it deter? And what would it lead to? Prisons these day are effectively apprentice training schools for a budding career criminal.

Unfortunately those countries that have those kinds of sanctions also are governed by repressive rulers who are infamous for their brutality to anyone who dares to break the law or even speak out.

They also have ultimate power to dictate whatever they want. Fancy living in any of the Middle East pseudo religious States? How about Russia? All are well known despotic places which for many of us are to a greater or lesser degree uncivilised.

The knock-on effect of a brutal regime is subjugation and terror, maybe too high a price to pay. Our alternative appears to be based on the assumption the crime was caused by a temporary lapse that can be resolved by some magical rehabilitation. Although there are some cases where this has happened, I have always doubted this applies across the board.

Better to keep an habitual and brutal offender, or someone who has committed the most awful atrocity, out of circulation permanently. The effect on such people when they know their long term fate is a great deterrent. And all the bruises are on the inside. When you consider the first responsibility of a government is to protect the people and if life meant life....

[MSS]

Putting more people in prison or for longer is actually going to exasperate the cost issue i.e. law abiding pay dearly for the welfare of those who have been imprisoned. This is one of drivers for the proposals to change the thresholds in order to reduce the prisoner population.

How does society balance the above cost with cost stresses due to continuous real-term budget cuts in health and education?

[Coups]

Total police numbers don't paint a true picture of what the public actually see. The vast majority of these officers are not in front facing roles and as a result won't be observed by people on the street. Sadly the world is a changed place from a few decades ago with huge increases in cyber crime, sexual offences (including reported historical), terrorism to name but a few areas our officers are engaged. Sadly funding as we all know is dropping. Enquiries in these fields tend to be far more complex and therefore time consuming and costly. The knock on is that funds and therefore officers are redeployed away from uniformed response and community teams. It's this that most members if society notice when we no longer see uniformed constables on patrol. Like most officers have any time for 'general patrol duties'!

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