Demise of law and order.

[MSS]

There is only one viable solution to society's problems..........autonomous hunter killer law enforcement terminators.




We just have to take our time getting to it!

[wraymond]

Amateur remedies abound, most with understandable fervour and all with commonly held criticism of those responsible for crime prevention and detection. All are valid but generally based on a degree of retribution by an ignored public.

If you go the root however, surely the best way to weed out problems, it is clear that increasing crime by murder might be better addressed by looking at the causes in closer detail.

Social attitudes, the (richly deserved) lack of respect for many public figures, the so predictable refusal of those officials to treat bad people from their own ranks with equal measure as the public, all lead to poor outcomes.

Mix in the explosion of drug culture and rising crime, in defiance of what was acceptable, changing behaviour is bound to be seen. While increasing the number of police officers is needed anyway, given the change in operational requirements, it would go nowhere in preventing the savagery we now see every day.

On the basis of what counts is what works, and current measures are without question ineffective as a deterrent, maybe a fresh approach is required. Hanging didn’t work before so why would it now?

If I were a young person looking for fraternal approval and considering murder to establish hierarchy, the idea of hanging, a death that is considered the least brutal and most readily accepted as a capital punishment by our society, would hardly be a deterrent. Especially as it is unlikely I would be caught no matter how many police there were.

Suffering martyrdom might not be seen as horrific. After all, it takes 4 seconds from drop to all the rope you need. Two of those seconds would be spent insensible. Then you have the progression from foot soldier to comrade in arms, and finally a martyred hero for all the lesser soldiers to emulate. It’s about time we recognised the influence of peer pressure on youths with no fatherly figure to worry about.

On the other hand, the certainty of permanent isolation from my former gang or family for the rest of my life would horrify me. Every single miserable and hopeless day. In USA states where capital punishment is allowed it does not, apparently, result in few murders, in fact quite the opposite.

Abolition of the death penalty should be seen as neither a kindness nor a weakness. Rather as a far more telling alternative punishment designed to bring about regret with no possibility of doing it again.

[MSS]

IMHAO (humble amateur opinion) mankind is facing two key problems - a) lack of sustainability on the planet due to high birth rates coupled with advances in medicine leading to people living longer and b) increasing lawlessness which is invariably going to be exasperated by the widening ultra-rich/poor gap.

The only solution to mankind's and the planet's survival ultimately will be to root out the latter thus also resolving the former. Otherwise the whole of mankind and this planet will die.

Welcome an advanced, high-tech and more brutal form of 'soylent green'.

[MSS]

I think mankind is due major corrections and the sooner they occur, the better our chances of survivability.

I have been told that I am not always the most cheerful company. But then I never get unpleasant surprises in life!

[AndyN01]

Originally Posted by topman

Well they'd have to pay a lot of money back, £30k per year to lock someone up for a year plus other costs. You could end up with a 6 figure bill they have to pay off, so it's not really a choice they've got.


At some point a country says your debt (not financial ) is paid.

A nice idea, but a system set up to bill people for their own investigation etc is open to abuse regardless of DNA.

That's the point. They end up with a massive bill and are not released back into society until it's paid off. Maybe their "gang" could have a whip round to pay it?

The debt is not paid until the financial one is paid. If that takes decades then so be it. You chose to break the law - this is what happens when (not if) you get caught. I reckon that will work pretty well as a deterrent.

Yes, it's open to abuse - but the same fate awaits those who chose to pervert the course of justice. How "brave" would you be to "stitch someone up" if you knew that an investigation would lead to you spending months/years/decades in prison?

The current system seems to create more effective law breakers and clearly doesn't deter effectively. Something needs to change.

Andy.

[topman]

Originally Posted by AndyN01

That's the point. They end up with a massive bill and are not released back into society until it's paid off. Maybe their "gang" could have a whip round to pay it?

The debt is not paid until the financial one is paid. If that takes decades then so be it. You chose to break the law - this is what happens when (not if) you get caught. I reckon that will work pretty well as a deterrent.

Yes, it's open to abuse - but the same fate awaits those who chose to pervert the course of justice. How "brave" would you be to "stitch someone up" if you knew that an investigation would lead to you spending months/years/decades in prison?

The current system seems to create more effective law breakers and clearly doesn't deter effectively. Something needs to change.

Andy.

So you mean a version of the work house. What sort of work would they do?

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by topman

So you mean a version of the work house. What sort of work would they do?

Work house ??

Right, start with only bread and water.

Pedal operated electric generator for each prisoner.

Power metered into the national grid. ( We all gain. )

Food supply upped in direct proportion to power generated by pedal power.

Would teach the concept of having to work to gain better food.---.







or, if that didn't work put the £30,000 needed per year to keep them in jail straight into their pockets with immediate loss of said money if caught breaking the law.-----and back inside on bread and water again.---

[gadget1960]

For as many years as I care to remember there has been endless discussions and debates about our crime levels/statistics, judicial system, and all the other political and pc crud that goes with it, there is NO answer, never has been ..and never will be to this creeping malaise that threatens out society and anyone that says there is a definitive answer is kidding themselves or are just taking the money to do more research.
Realistically the only answer is to properly take these criminals off the streets and out of the prisons permanently (no rehab, no trying to show them the error of their ways, no second chances an so on) ... round'em all up, stick'em on a boat and dump'em all on some 'criminal island' to sort it all out amongst themselves. Three meals a day, plenty of 'excercise', no telly, no xbox / playstation, in fact ... deprive them of absolutely every creature comfort they have ever known for the rest of their natural.
When the inevitable acts of nature or any other 'mishap' takes place between inmates .... fish food !
I would gladly pay my taxes toward this island's upkeep if it meant we as law abiding citizens could reclaim our right to feel safe and secure in our own surroundings.

[gadget1960]

Originally Posted by mss

Did you think so?

IMHAO (humble amateur opinion) mankind is facing two key problems - a) lack of sustainability on the planet due to high birth rates coupled with advances in medicine leading to people living longer and b) increasing lawlessness which is invariably going to be exasperated by the widening ultra-rich/poor gap.

The only solution to mankind's and the planet's survival ultimately will be to root out the latter thus also resolving the former. Otherwise the whole of mankind and this planet will die.

Welcome an advanced, high-tech and more brutal form of 'soylent green'.

Another factor not often mentioned is this ..... it is in our nature as human beings to destroy ourselves, every other species resident on this planet automatically and instinctively develops an 'equilibrium' with it's surroundings, 'we' as supposedly THE most advanced and intelligent species are still exhausting our planets resources at an alarming rate, are not happy unless we're having some kind of war, positively encourage social divides and 'offing' each other in record numbers.
The powers that be can do all the studies / experiments it likes, the human desire to destroy itself is in our make-up, it would have to be 'bred out' over many generations to achieve an acceptable member of society.
Or ..... leave it as it is and .....perhaps 'soylent green' IS the answer.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by gadget1960

For as many years as I care to remember there has been endless discussions and debates about our crime levels/statistics, judicial system, and all the other political and pc crud that goes with it, there is NO answer, never has been ..and never will be to this creeping malaise that threatens out society and anyone that says there is a definitive answer is kidding themselves or are just taking the money to do more research.
Realistically the only answer is to properly take these criminals off the streets and out of the prisons permanently (no rehab, no trying to show them the error of their ways, no second chances an so on) ... round'em all up, stick'em on a boat and dump'em all on some 'criminal island' to sort it all out amongst themselves. Three meals a day, plenty of 'excercise', no telly, no xbox / playstation, in fact ... deprive them of absolutely every creature comfort they have ever known for the rest of their natural.
When the inevitable acts of nature or any other 'mishap' takes place between inmates .... fish food !
I would gladly pay my taxes toward this island's upkeep if it meant we as law abiding citizens could reclaim our right to feel safe and secure in our own surroundings.

You are heading in the right direction but not quite there yet. Your suggestion does not help with food shortages. The answer is there, a few posts above yours.


Addendum - you are there with that last post!