police recruitment

[wraymond]

Whatever you say Alan, I'm content to leave it at that.

[alanaslan]

I have to agree with CLF. Though I have seen this work both ways.
This is sorry was a problem that was prevalent in British Occupied Ulster sorry Northern Ireland. It was also a problem in many parts of Scotland. Though in England not so much. Perhaps a regional problem not a national one


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[clf]

Originally Posted by alanaslan

I have to agree with CLF. Though I have seen this work both ways.
This is sorry was a problem that was prevalent in British Occupied Ulster sorry Northern Ireland. It was also a problem in many parts of Scotland. Though in England not so much. Perhaps a regional problem not a national one


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Organised religion should be banned outright, there is no need for it. It was of course only created as a form of law and order, using symbolism to allow for easy translation and understanding for the masses at the time. Each form of religious doctrine, being biased (and therefore correct) to that particular 'tribe' or group who created it - making those who did not follow, illegal and therefore liable to 'prosecution' via persecution.

Alan, you are too, thinking too recently. Britain do NOT occupy Ulster. They currently only control 6 counties of Ulster. . They still do not occupy Northern Ireland, the inhabitants of Northern Ireland occupy it. However what I refer to earlier, does not relate to British rule, but rather English, Welsh and Scottish (lairds subservient to the King of England) confiscation (theft) of lands belonging Gaelic colonies and the subsequent enforcement of payments to church of england (ireland) for the benefit of the english monarchy in the form of tithes. Imagine not being permitted to worship your own form of religion, whilst being forced to pay a church you do not belong to, to fund a monarchy who literally stole the land that would have been your birthright. As I said before, search for the Plantations of Ireland, along with Tithes of Ireland among other things, it will prove to be eye opening.

For The Troubles, search for the Civil Rights Movement, paying attention in particular to its disbandment and the infiltration of republican terrorists, who took over. Which has since sullied the purpose (which was actually genuine and fair) of the Civil Rights Movement. A bit like the militant groups using flying protesters to infiltrate the BLM protests for their own anarchist agendas.

[clf]

Bringing religion or rather religious bigotry/discrimination into the discussion, wasnt really meant to invoke a philosophical thought into the discussion. My apologies - I threw my opinion in on the origins of religion, and it could lead to contravention of the rules of the forum. The reason I mentioned it, was because I feel religious division is as ridiculous as racial division, although in most cases, religion is relatively invisible compared to race.

My intention was to show how the discrimination exists legally by legislation, and my belief that a person should have the same opportunities in employment (especially the police) regardless of their beliefs, creed, or the make up of the employer for the sake of what to me is an arbitrary scale. (the most common term I have seen in job ads generally states, 'as the Roman Catholic community is under represented in this position, applications are particularly welcome from Roman Catholics' and it includes the police). The person should be capable of doing the job, as simple as that.

The religious discrimination has a distant history behind it, which whilst not as traumatic, some similarities can be drawn from them to the slave trade. Even the protesting, which starts out as peaceful and genuine, it gets hijacked by those with their own agenda.

In terms of the philosophy behind beliefs, I believe most of us do not have the ability to appreciate or understand what comes after. The end. When we cease to exist. I know I cant, and being agnostic, I struggle with the concept. I quite like the idea of reincarnation, however, that then becomes a choice to blindly believe, and is against my principles behind my agnosticism (a creator/afterlife etc cannot be proved, but equally, it cannot be disproved). But that is getting away from issues with police recruitment lol.

[clf]

When it comes to women, they're better at being fair, and balanced so this would not do in an employment situation so therefore they are worse lol.

But this actually applies to other forms of discrimination. It is the 'ruling' entity's bias that taints the rest. I have my ingrained prejudices that when I stop to think and analyse them, I then question what I have grown up with.

Religion, being the prejudice I have experienced and witnessed.growing up, in predominantly loyalist areas, I was always led to believe catholic and Republican areas were sinister and dangerous places (like everywhere there are bad areas of course). Dark and gloomy too. But a number of months ago, I had call to go to a colleague's house, in a very very Republican area (one of the ones you used to see on the news- this one is where the two corporal were murdered whilst stumbling into a republican funeral cortege in the 80s). What I saw was a vibrant community. There was a feeling of a community and a spirit that I have never actually seen before here. In spite of the drab greyness of it, it was actually beautiful. That was my prejudice going in, truly shattered, in seconds. The history behind it all has been broken down gradually over the past couple of decades. I become disappointed and angry at those who continue this discrimination based upon recent events (100 years), rather than the actual catalysts that started it, as well as those who did create them, using their supporters as ignorant pawns to further their own agenda(trump is one of these).

I am sorry, this was supposed to be a humourous or ironic post on female discrimination and the reasons I believe it exists, but turned into a rant.

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[clf]

I still have that prejudice, like a memory effect, which I have to stop and consider at a given time.

Regarding terrorist police; The police have been trained to use that technique, there are situations where the one being held could wriggle into a position,where the person being held is in danger (unknown to the officer due to a high stress situation- not specifically referring to the George floyd scenario, the videos we see, do not show what went before, nor the emotion around the situation - incidentally, a similar hold was used a few weeks prior, where a white man allegedly died as a result ). Thenyouhave those who 'cry wolf' break free and escape. But the point is, they are trained in what is regarded to be the best way possible to restrain, in a situation. What their training does not allow for to a certain extent (which is where my disagreement comes) is the attitude of the officer.

A police man joins as a source of income (nowadays), a terrorist joins to be part of a group whose ideals and attitudes are similar, and trained with this in mind. The police are not supposed to apply attitudes, and rely blindly on training (and I appreciate that this is the crux of the issue, even though there was an oriental officer standing by at the time).

What happens if the policeman involved turns out to be exonerated of racial discrimination, after it is shown that he has a black wife, and is a member of a black evangelical church? That George floyd repeatedly punched and assaulted the officer? And his training was correctly applied, but the training was flawed? Ie it had nothing to do with the attitude of the officer. That is when it will be really scary, because people will not look at the reasoning behind it.

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[wraymond]

It wasn't just the officer with the knee Clive. In the pitched battle of a violent attack by a mob going on all around him he ignored, or couldn't hear for the noise around him, shouts from his colleagues next to him to remove his knee.

In a place where guns are rife, the pressure the police are under is tremendous. It doesn't excuse what he did but maybe it should be taken into account. I dread to think what I, even if I had the training, would do in those circumstances. I wonder why the whole world seems to condemn those who are trying to prevent death and destruction while genuflecting in support of the demonstrators.

I read in one report he is being charged with murder! This whole affair will do no good for any recruitment campaign.



As for religion, the wilfully blind being led by impostors.

[macafee2]

Originally Posted by wraymond

It wasn't just the officer with the knee Clive. In the pitched battle of a violent attack by a mob going on all around him he ignored, or couldn't hear for the noise around him, shouts from his colleagues next to him to remove his knee.

In a place where guns are rife, the pressure the police are under is tremendous. It doesn't excuse what he did but maybe it should be taken into account. I dread to think what I, even if I had the training, would do in those circumstances. I wonder why the whole world seems to condemn those who are trying to prevent death and destruction while genuflecting in support of the demonstrators.

I read in one report he is being charged with murder! This whole affair will do no good for any recruitment campaign.



As for religion, the wilfully blind being led by impostors.

I thought murder was a deliberate act, manslaughter was unintentional.
Murder does not seem appropriate.
Any stats on blacks killed by white officers and white officers killed by black assailants?

macafee2

[wraymond]

The report I saw (BBC on line) was that he had been dismissed and charged with murder. Other police 'assailants' were suspended. Both the alleged charge and the term 'assailants' seem curious anomalies but, hey, it's US legalities. I don't think the other stats you mention have any bearing and would only serve to promote further unrest, whatever they were. No matter what the source was it would be ridiculed.

[clf]

Originally Posted by macafee2

I thought murder was a deliberate act, manslaughter was unintentional.
Murder does not seem appropriate.
Any stats on blacks killed by white officers and white officers killed by black assailants?

macafee2

To me it doesn't seem appropriate either. However, the us have differing terms to ours.i believe 2nd degree murder is equivalent your manslaughter, however I do think he was charged with that.in that though,it gives an opportunity as I understand, to plead toa lesser charge.

Regarding the stats, there will be some out there. I hope though they are not official, as there should not be stats such as this based upon race.it should be stats of deaths whilst in police custody, with each one investigated for cause (excessive force etc, then investigated further for an attitude related reason behind that individual case). If there are stats, investigate their source, and the location of where it occurred. (Eg a predominantly black neighbourhood, then perhaps there were 3.black officers present and one white - ie each case must be investigated in isolation, unless the same officers are involved).

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