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Old 9th February 2021, 23:01   #51
edwardmk
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Originally Posted by COLVERT View Post
Unlikely but possible.

Sorry to repeat this BUT-----If you connect a charger in the same way you tried connecting another battery IT WON'T work. Either both ways work or none at all.----You have a wiring problem. Definitely !!!!-------
I'm pretty sure I had a good connections with the clamps on the towbracket and Pin 9. I'm thinking the old trailer socket may have some oxidation somewhere on the line to the battery.
I thought as an alternative ( in theory ) if there was indeed a poor connection between pin 9 and the battery, I could trickle charge the battery through the trailer socket, but was frustrated when the alarm started up. The battery definitely was charging albeight slowly. I was really hoping your excellent suggestion would work Jon. I'm thinking to try charging until the alarm goes off, and then slap on the V8 battery with the engine running and try four quick presses on the fob before I abandon hope and take off the wheel arch liner and try the open the bonnet approach.
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Old 10th February 2021, 05:48   #52
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The ZTT 190 has randomly started a ticking from under the bonnet. I went out to investigate and my key fob didn't work so I can't raise up the hood. I knew the key fob battery was low, but the fob worked normally on Thursday night when I parked and locked. There was no apparent noise on Friday when I passed the car outside so it must have started entirely randomly late Friday afternoon. I've now changed the battery in the fob. Old cell was 2.9v and the new one 3.25. Red light is working but no response. I tried the key manually, but nothing engaged in the lock. The ticking has been going now for at least 12 hours. The rate is two ticks per second and can be clearly heard 20' away from the car. Any suggestions urgently invited please before the battery goes flat.

I have two guesses if by ticking you mean a constant running of a solenoid pump then it is most likely to be the ABS brake control valve pump situated just under the other possible Solenoid pump the under bonnet fuel pump both at the back of the battery box. is the tick coming from the N/S?
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Old 10th February 2021, 05:57   #53
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Too cold for me to work on the car today lol.
Just a question if anyone can answer it. Is it normal for the car alarm to go off as a very flat battery is being charged on the car and recovers it's voltage?

This can happen because if you have a pump running when the alarm is set the voltage sensor with in the alarm will pick up power consumption of the pump. surprised it lets you set it at all. Though if it is not sensitive to pick up the discharge when it is fully charged as the battery voltage goes down the amperage drawn will increase the good old V=IR equation you would have been taught at school. Also you should never charge the cars battery is connected to the car. You can blow the diode pack in the Alternator by charging the battery whilst it is still connected to the car. So nothing should should be live when charging the battery.

Last edited by alanaslan; 10th February 2021 at 06:01.. Reason: adding the point about disconecting the battery when charging
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Old 10th February 2021, 06:57   #54
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Does anyone know if any of the thirteen pins is a direct connection to battery positive?


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The answer to that question is a tin of beans. or is it a can of worms. thirteen pin sockets are meant to be wired up through a magic relay box if the battery is very flat with a constant drain on it then the relay box will not make a direct to anything.
the pin con figuration on a 13 pin socket should be
1) left indicator 1.5mm yellow
2) fog light 1.5mm Blue
3) common return for contacts 1 to 8 2.5mm white
4) right indicator 1.5mm green
5) right hand side lights 1.5mm Brown
6) Brake Lights 1.5mm Red
7) left hand side lights 1.5mm Black
8) reversing light 1.5mm pink
9) continuous power supply 2.5mm orange
10) ignition switched power 2.5mm grey

11) earth contact for pin 10 2.5mm white and black
12) coding for coupled unit should be bridged to pin 3
13) common return for pin 9 2.5mm white and red



The above is the correct wiring for a 13 pin trailer socket with cable rating and colour coding. if the system is connected up through a digital relay pack which is battery fed so there is no direct line for any pin they only connect the socket to the relay power supply.
On my unit pin twelve is the rear camera feed and so is not linked to pin 3

in my car. the common returns are also negative feeds through the digital relay pack so again no direct feed to the vehicle earth it is a controlled pin through the digital relay pack. But the question is then who wired up the tow bar and is power coming through a relay pack or is it just scotch locked onto the light cluster wires direct with a live supply fed to pins 9 and 10.


Best of luck with charging the battery or getting into the car or under the bonnet. I still think your ticking will be the ABS control valve solenoid pump.
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Old 10th February 2021, 08:18   #55
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Originally Posted by alanaslan View Post
... the under bonnet fuel pump both at the back of the battery box.
Martin's car hasn't got an under-bonnet fuel pump Alan. It's a petrol engine.
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You can blow the diode pack in the Alternator by charging the battery whilst it is still connected to the car.
Just to put this in perspective Alan, it's only if you're careless enough to connect your charger clamps the wrong way around!

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Last edited by SD1too; 10th February 2021 at 12:11..
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Old 10th February 2021, 09:52   #56
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https://caravanchronicles.com/guides...fault-finding/

Although pin 9 shows permanent live, the bypass relay of the car may not allow this to be permanent live. If a caravan is attached, leaving it connected could flatten the cars battery. I think I have mine wired so it is only live when the engine is running.
Pin 10 as indicated should only be live when the engine is running for the same reason.

pin 12 shows as not used, perhaps those of us with towing electrics should wire pin 12
direct to the positive of the battery just for charging.


macafee2

just been and checked, no 12v on pins 9 or 10 without the engine running

Last edited by macafee2; 10th February 2021 at 10:06..
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Old 10th February 2021, 10:42   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanaslan View Post
I have two guesses if by ticking you mean a constant running of a solenoid pump then it is most likely to be the ABS brake control valve pump situated just under the other possible Solenoid pump the under bonnet fuel pump both at the back of the battery box. is the tick coming from the N/S?
Thanks for responding. I found it odd there was no ticking on Thursday or Friday, but on Saturday it had started up despite the car being locked. I thought it was predominantly near side, but I couldn't be sure. The engine is a KV6 190.
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Old 10th February 2021, 10:49   #58
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Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
Martin's car hasn't got an under-bonnet fuel pump Alan. It's a 1.8 petrol engine.

Just to put this in perspective Alan, it's only if you're careless enough to connect your charger clamps the wrong way around!

Simon
Hi Simon,

It is actually a KV6 190 Simon. I need to update my profile. The ticking noise did sound like some kind of relay on the nearside when it was active. but of course the battery is now discharged.
I've always charged my batteries on the car, rarely taken one off, so re-assuring that as long as I'm careful with polarity, it should be OK. I think the more modern cars though are increasingly sensitive to how they are treated with so many ecu's
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Old 10th February 2021, 10:52   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macafee2 View Post
https://caravanchronicles.com/guides...fault-finding/

Although pin 9 shows permanent live, the bypass relay of the car may not allow this to be permanent live. If a caravan is attached, leaving it connected could flatten the cars battery. I think I have mine wired so it is only live when the engine is running.
Pin 10 as indicated should only be live when the engine is running for the same reason.

pin 12 shows as not used, perhaps those of us with towing electrics should wire pin 12
direct to the positive of the battery just for charging.


macafee2

just been and checked, no 12v on pins 9 or 10 without the engine running
I'm pretty sure I don't have a relay on mine because it seemed to be raising the battery voltage. Relay sounds like the correct way to go though.
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Old 10th February 2021, 21:01   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanaslan View Post
This can happen because if you have a pump running when the alarm is set the voltage sensor with in the alarm will pick up power consumption of the pump. surprised it lets you set it at all. Though if it is not sensitive to pick up the discharge when it is fully charged as the battery voltage goes down the amperage drawn will increase the good old V=IR equation you would have been taught at school. Also you should never charge the cars battery is connected to the car. You can blow the diode pack in the Alternator by charging the battery whilst it is still connected to the car. So nothing should should be live when charging the battery.
Whenever I've needed to charge a battery I have never dis connected it from my car or other family members cars for over 40 years now without any problems.

It's the same if you jump start one car from another and leave the donators car engine running. It won't hurt the alternator diodes.

The alternator or charger put around the same voltage into the cars circuitry. The diodes are built to take this. ( approximately 14.4 volts. )


If what you suggest is true the roads would be littered with cars with damaged alternators after a jump start.

( It's a bit of a wives tale that just won't go away.-----)
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