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Old 2nd April 2021, 07:13   #71
paulh260260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducati750cc View Post
If there are combustion gasses entering the cooling system they will show up with a good quality gas tester.

Failing that a thorough cooling system pressure test as I mentioned previously, plus, as Stocktake mentions a compression test.

One other not often mentioned or used is a cylinder leak tester, or leak down tester.

Basically it has two pressure gauges on a tube, one end has a connection to a compressor, the other end has an adaptor to screw into plug holes, between the gauges in the tube is a calibrated restricted orifice.

The first gauge measures input pressure which you usually set at 100 Psi. the second measures the leakage as a percentage.

It can be a bit of a rigmarole the more cylinders there are but can provide so much information.

Briefly, take a 4cyl engine, remove all the plugs, get No 1 to TDC both valves closed, put the car in gear to prevent the engine turning fit the adaptor into No 1 plug hole, then turn on the air and set the input gauge at 100 Psi, observe and note the reading on the leakage gauge, there will be some leakage, also fill the radiator or expansion bottle to overflowing, remove the dipstick and oil filler cap and remove the air filter to carb, throttle body pipe, then whilst all is still connected and under pressure, listen at the following for the sound of air leaking, sometimes easier with a stethoscope or piece of tube.


A) Exhaust pipe, signs of a burnt valve or no valve clearance, or other valve / seat problems.

B) Carb, throttle body inlet, as above, valve / seating problem etc as with the exhaust.

C) Oil filler cap and, or dipstick tube, possible ring damage or ring bore wear/ damage.

D) Radiator filler neck or expansion bottle neck, visible bubbles, or if not filled to overflowing sound of escaping air in the expansion bottle or radiator, signs of head gasket failure or cracked liner or cracked head in some instances.

E) The plug hole of the adjacent cylinder, or cylinders to that being tested, shows head gasket, cracked head problems between cylinders.

Obviously as each cylinder is tested, it must be brought to TDC with both/all valves closed and the above repeated, a healthy engine will show all cylinders leak a small amount and about equal and this will be past the piston rings, any with a greater leak points to that cylinder only.

It can show single areas needing attention as above or multiple areas.

If you get time Google a video of it, a video will explain far more than my brief description here.

Stocktake also mentioned Steel Seal, though not the cheapest sealer, it is about the best according to my son, though not intended be to a permanent repair, as long as the instructions are followed to the letter, he has been surprised in many instances how well it has worked and how long it has lasted on customers cars who have been skint, just wanted the car to last another couple of months, or to save up for the proper job to be done and having stripped them down for the proper job at a later date has been able to see how effective it has been, but it won't always work on substantial problems.

The testers are quite reasonable and you can make one, as I did aeons ago for two reasons, one I'm tight, two I'm always of the mindset of " I bet I could make one " the photo is of my Blue Peter, Heath Robinson one, after a bit of rooting in my ' that may come in handy, cabinets, drawers and cupboards' and it's as accurate but not as posh as my sons.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/225857...posted-public/



Wow, thanks for such a detailed and thought out post Ducati, although i think I've already concluded that a HGF is most likely.

The garage I use are ex Rover guys, I've used them for over 10 years and they've always been great, I was just hoping that this time they my have been bit hasty but I think they've got it right.

As Lear has pointed out I'll have to decide between stripping down myself or the dreaded Steel Seal.

Cheers

Paul
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Old 2nd April 2021, 07:30   #72
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Thumbs down Warning!

I am very alarmed that people are suggesting the use of K-seal or Steel Seal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lear View Post
One way is to stick some K sealant in ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducati750cc View Post
Stocktake also mentioned Steel Seal, though not the cheapest sealer, it is about the best ...
Do NOT, under any circumstances, use these products in your engine. They will cause an escalation in cooling system problems and, once added, are virtually impossible to remove. Put bluntly, they are bodger man's tool. Judging by Lear and Ducati750cc's usual posts, neither belongs in this category.

Knowing Dave (Stocktake) I do not believe that he was promoting the use of Steel Seal. Note the amusing spelling:
Quote:
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All for the price of a bottle of stealseal.....
It's clear to me that the point Dave is making is that the tests he has suggested are inexpensive by comparing them to the price of a bottle of the devil's potion. It's no more than that.

There are many long and woeful tales from members who have had K-Seal and Steel Seal put into their engines. Anybody considering or recommending this course of action should read these depressing accounts.

Simon
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Old 2nd April 2021, 08:48   #73
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I agree with Simon - avoid the steel seal .

I would also add that HGF on a KV6 doesn't have to be such a major job if you can find the right mechanic. When my engine noise was finally diagnosed as piston slap, I decided I wanted it sorted, so agreed to have the engine removed and stripped down. As the heads would be coming off anyway, the mechanic decided he'd take them off with the engine in situ to make the engine smaller & lighter for removal. They were off with no issue in less that 2 hours of his arrival. The replacement followed a similar pattern. He replaced the clutch and engine block and then had the heads on in no time at all. I had offered to give him a hand with the rear head as it looked like it might be a little awkward, but it proved unnecessary and he popped it on single handed much as he had done with the front head.

All in all, replacing the heads were probably the most uneventful part of the rebuild.

I should perhaps add though, I'm no mechanic, so wouldn't dream of doing it myself .

Cliff
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Old 2nd April 2021, 09:05   #74
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Just as an aside, not wishing to alarm the OP but.. I have seen more KV6 engines with liner issues than head gasket failure.

Your garage may change the head gaskets but unless they check the bottom end thoroughly you could end up with the same issue.
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Old 2nd April 2021, 09:13   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post

Knowing Dave (Stocktake) I do not believe that he was promoting the use of Steel Seal. Note the amusing spelling:

It's clear to me that the point Dave is making is that the tests he has suggested are inexpensive by comparing them to the price of a bottle of the devil's potion. It's no more than that.

Simon
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Old 2nd April 2021, 11:21   #76
paulh260260
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Quote:
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Thankyou...
Very Good...As a Lancastrian I still need to bone up more on Yorkshire humour
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