police recruitment

[macafee2]

Currently there are adverts for police recruitment, some 20,000 posts.
I would like to see figures published about the applicants such as how many count themselves as Asian, Black or white.

why you may ask?

Often the police are called raciest and shouts of how many black officers do you see.
Well, lets see the numbers of applicants, number of applicants by colour and the numbers taken on by colour, not sure you can draw much of a conclusion as 100% of one may be suitable while 100% of another may not.

macafee2

[wraymond]

Getting into the elephant trap that BAME could lead to is possibly liable to misinterpretation and censure.

Why not consider the inextricably linked related issue of the protesters’ single claim that the police in particular are racist? Comment has been made both before and after the untimely demise of the American protester, all of which has led to the disgraceful scenes we have seen in London and Bristol and the efforts of the police to maintain a balanced presence.

There was much comment about deaths in police custody but it was not expanded on, for whatever reason. It gave a particularly bad impression and gave apparent support to those false allegations.

By way of correction, should those who wrongly assert false ‘facts’ so freely continue to do so, why not a peek at published and legally verified accurate figures?

According the charity Inquest, widely recognised as honourably neutral, deaths in police custody in England and Wales since 1990 totalled 1,741. Of those, 243 (14%) were from minority ethnic backgrounds. That roughly corresponds with the population mix of the UK generally.

So, from impeccable source, the false claims of the motivating terrorists have resulted in a public scandal of the police declining to arrest hundreds for flouting current public space restrictions in the interests of all of us. Property damage, destruction of historical records of history and rampant rioting, all based on lies! We are mugs to tolerate this lawlessness. As I said earlier, these protesters are blaggards.

[marinabrian]

Policing in this country is by consent, whereas in the United States of America, the police forces are viewed very much as us and them on both sides.

Whilst not condoning the actions of the single police officer in the American case, this is not an excuse to run riot, in any event.......and even less so to demonstrate in this country.

There will be those who wish to sanctify, however as a convicted armed robber, and arrested in the proceed of passing off counterfeit currency this person was not a saint by any stretch.

This does not justify the excessive force employed by the police officer, who has rightly been charged with murder, but of course utilised by many as an excuse for civil disobedience, which has no relation whatsoever to the original event.

To see the idiocy of the "protestors" in the UK and the mob mentality was sickening, and in the case of those protesting (to what ends, other than self serving "outrage" at a completely unrelated event in a different country)

I fully support those who quite rightly abhor racism in any shape or form, however what has been seen in Bristol and London is counterproductive to any argument the protesters may have wished to promote.

Anyway ,I don't think this has much relation on Ian's question, but hopefully the 20000 new police recruit positions currently being advertised, are filled by a broad spectrum of people, irrespective of creed or colour.

Brian

[KWIL]

By all means recruit 20,000 from a broad spectrum of society, IF you can sufficient numbers from that broad spectrum.

It is apparent that some sectors would view their members joining as a negative thing to do, joining the enemy so to speak.

[clf]

Employ people capable of doing and qualified for the job irrespective colour race, sex or religion.

The religious aspect is prevalent here in ni. Not just employment but schools too (this is regardless of their proximity to the school).

I have experienced this, mainly but not always in the form.of positive discrimination. I didn't protest complain or whinge, even though in one post I applied for, I was qualified to do, but the person who got it, wasnt.

Blind interviews, and blind applications are what is required. Then those who are capable, and qualified can then get on with doing the job.

I know that is a bit rose tinted, and I am all to aware of the favouritism and bias that has occurred in the past.

Additionally, it is none of my business if someone is Muslim, black white chinese or green. It is my business if they can do the job that I pay towards. Ie the results are what need to be scrutinised and dealt with. Not the colour of the applicant.

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by marinabrian

Policing in this country is by consent, whereas in the United States of America, the police forces are viewed very much as us and them on both sides.

Whilst not condoning the actions of the single police officer in the American case, this is not an excuse to run riot, in any event.......and even less so to demonstrate in this country.

There will be those who wish to sanctify, however as a convicted armed robber, and arrested in the proceed of passing off counterfeit currency this person was not a saint by any stretch.

This does not justify the excessive force employed by the police officer, who has rightly been charged with murder, but of course utilised by many as an excuse for civil disobedience, which has no relation whatsoever to the original event.

To see the idiocy of the "protestors" in the UK and the mob mentality was sickening, and in the case of those protesting (to what ends, other than self serving "outrage" at a completely unrelated event in a different country)

I fully support those who quite rightly abhor racism in any shape or form, however what has been seen in Bristol and London is counterproductive to any argument the protesters may have wished to promote.

Anyway ,I don't think this has much relation on Ian's question, but hopefully the 20000 new police recruit positions currently being advertised, are filled by a broad spectrum of people, irrespective of creed or colour.

Brian

I think the relationship between recruitment and the perception of the general public, including ethnic minorities, is going to have a massive effect on applications from diverse sectors.

That's why these protestors are having a totally negative effect on the support they claim to be enjoying. They are there for entirely different purposes and ideals than they publicly admit to.

If they succeed in their objectives, the police by definition will number fewer diverse officers and then you see their predictions bearing fruit. We are walking into a grim prospect unless this kind of perversion is minimised.

There is a problem with origins in expressing numbers of variants (those terms in their widest sense). There are legions of commentators that would use that as an expression in itself as proving racism. We talk about being colour-blind. Well it should apply across the board. Quotas are a bad thing when just for their own sake.

[clf]

Originally Posted by wraymond

I think the relationship between recruitment and the perception of the general public, including ethnic minorities, is going to have a massive effect on applications from diverse sectors.

this has already occurred in both the RUC and latterly the PSNI. Have a look at THIS story. (keep in mind, in the past, Catholics/Nationalists were discouraged to join because of pressure from what are now called 'community leaders' and peer pressure).

Drop ALL irrelevant requirements, monitor the actual requirements and qualifications for the post, on an anonymous basis (ie numerical applications - which is in part how my job was recruited for). Sadly this will require a third party recruitment agency/department (which is how my employer operates, and still they are incompetent but that is a different story).

Can a woman do a job as capably as a man (and vice versa)? Sometimes yes, and sometimes one sex is more suited than the other - generally. It is a sad fact of physiology, but it doesnt mean there are individuals of each sex wont be as capable as the other.

The effort and ability of the individual should be more important than a data led arbitrary requirement. Simply to satisfy a figure dreamed up by someone who has no knowledge or experience of a particular field. As an example, a mainly muslim community will have certain traditions and ideals, however these should not override law and order. Should a female jewish policewoman (or officer? ) be permitted to arrest a man leaving a mosque? YES! providing she followed the correct and legal procedure.

In the example of police, the symbol of justice, Justitia, is blindfolded, and this is how it should be. It, in my opinion, should also be applied to other forms of life. Remember the ridiculous situation of Asher's bakery and the gay activist's cake (I think it was an attempt to fabricate a situation by the activist)? Aside from the fact Asher's goods are not particularly nice, but they should have the right to choose not to do certain things, just as the individual has the right not to shop there and respect their wish, without forcing your ideals onto others. Ultimately the business will suffer due to lack of customers, but that is the way of business. As long is it not done with critique and judgement, then there should be no issue.

[macafee2]

Originally Posted by KWIL

By all means recruit 20,000 from a broad spectrum of society, IF you can sufficient numbers from that broad spectrum.

It is apparent that some sectors would view their members joining as a negative thing to do, joining the enemy so to speak.

That would lead me to ask, who is the raciest? It should then also be pointed out to those that say this section of the public are under represented that that section perhaps did not apply so stick that where it hurts.

Whilst the best candidate should get the job it could be difficult to decide who the best candidate is. By this I mean ( and I may not give a good example), X may be better at catching a criminal but Y is better with dealing with this section of the public who will pass on information.

Not sure that balancing the books is the best way to go but it may bring harmony.

Anyway, I'd like to see figures published

macafee2

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by clf

this has already occurred in both the RUC and latterly the PSNI. Have a look at THIS story. (keep in mind, in the past, Catholics/Nationalists were discouraged to join because of pressure from what are now called 'community leaders' and peer pressure).

Drop ALL irrelevant requirements, monitor the actual requirements and qualifications for the post, on an anonymous basis (ie numerical applications - which is in part how my job was recruited for). Sadly this will require a third party recruitment agency/department (which is how my employer operates, and still they are incompetent but that is a different story).

Can a woman do a job as capably as a man (and vice versa)? Sometimes yes, and sometimes one sex is more suited than the other - generally. It is a sad fact of physiology, but it doesnt mean there are individuals of each sex wont be as capable as the other.

The effort and ability of the individual should be more important than a data led arbitrary requirement. Simply to satisfy a figure dreamed up by someone who has no knowledge or experience of a particular field. As an example, a mainly muslim community will have certain traditions and ideals, however these should not override law and order. Should a female jewish policewoman (or officer? ) be permitted to arrest a man leaving a mosque? YES! providing she followed the correct and legal procedure.

In the example of police, the symbol of justice, Justitia, is blindfolded, and this is how it should be. It, in my opinion, should also be applied to other forms of life. Remember the ridiculous situation of Asher's bakery and the gay activist's cake (I think it was an attempt to fabricate a situation by the activist)? Aside from the fact Asher's goods are not particularly nice, but they should have the right to choose not to do certain things, just as the individual has the right not to shop there and respect their wish, without forcing your ideals onto others. Ultimately the business will suffer due to lack of customers, but that is the way of business. As long is it not done with critique and judgement, then there should be no issue.

Forgive my lack of first-hand experience in the affairs of Northern Ireland but that tragic conflict is totally beyond me. To conflate endemic sectarian divide with alleged police racism seems a diversion from the present situation but in no way mitigates the horror of past events.

Insofar as police recruitment here is concerned Justicia might well be blindfolded but her servants are far from it. Her blindness is selective in that she presides and protects those who use her name to further their own ends.

Explain the prosecutors and defenders who have the privilege of audience and regularly twist or feign ignorance of unhelpful evidence that might hinder their brief! Even that is well after the police with their human failings in extremely difficult circumstances overlook salient facts.

There is nothing blind in a court of Lawyers. The ability for swerve is paramount. The police act all in public and suffer deliberate violence from the mob. I wonder what will happen to the idiot that threw the Boris bike at the mounted WPC that caused her such serious damage.

In addition, they are led by career climbers who never face censure and are frequently over-promoted. Maybe that should be addressed too? One barrier to recruitment is the way some of them are treated by their seniors when the focus changes from wide to narrow.

[KWIL]

Now turning again on Oxford's Cecil Rhodes statue, I wonder how many of the Rhodes Scholarship beneficiaries are now going to turn it down?