JLR suffering from Diesel over reliance - Page 3

ziggy72 · 2nd November 2018, 22:56

there has yet to be a manufacturer who has produced the 100% reliable car and probably never will be.
i have to book cars into main dealers on a daily basis at work and sometimes have to wait a couple of weeks to get cars booked in as there service and warranty departments are fully booked especially VW and BMW.
not many companies are producing or selling many electric vehicles at the moment, a few unstylish Toyotas and the odd nissan leaf come into work, a couple of big vauxhall Ampera's have been in and today a new wing and bumper was fitted to a hybrid Hyundai Ioniq which makes my S-type look pretty.
most manufactures including Jaguar have electric and hybrids in the pipeline and will have to adapt but i won't happen overnight so petrol and diesel will continue for a long time yet. the big marques will move with the times whilst smaller companies will struggle though MG plan to have an electric vehicle out next summer. hopefully as sales increase parts will become more readily available for MG. we have an MG ZS in at work with front end damage with 400 mile on the clock and its been standing waiting for parts for 4 weeks so far with no estimated date for the new parts. none in the country at the moment we're told.

MSS · 3rd November 2018, 08:41

In my opinion, most people here are mistaken about the type of person that buys a Jaguar or a mid-range upwards Mercedes, BMW etc. and the criteria on which their purchases are based. These cars are purchased by people with a reasonable amount of wealth to reflect their status in life, at work etc. The other important criteria is usually driveability. Reliability or resale values 5+ years down the line are not usually primary considerations.

We, on the other hand, are people who buy relatively cheap and old cars. Reliability is a prime concern as that makes the difference between a good and a bad car from our perspective.

When I used to take company cars, reliability was never a consideration. How the car looked and drove was far, far more important.

Even now, and with my own money, nothing would stop me from wanting to buy a Jaguar or a Mercedes E-class upwards.

Comfortably Numb · 3rd November 2018, 15:19

I accept that, as I only buy old cars, I can expect some reliability issues, and a fair bit of maintenance and improvement to get to a car that I can have confidence in. But if I was in the market to buy a brand new car at £40,000 +, the last thing I would expect is reliability problems, especially worse and more persistent ones than a mass-market car at half the price. I agree that few cars are perfect, but if 100 random Honda Jazz owners can give a 100% reliability report over 3 years ownership, I suggest that they are doing something right that JLR are not. My brother is a wealthy - ish man and could reasonably afford to buy any new car he liked up to £100,000. He prefers to buy 2 or 3 year old low milage VAG products, with a full service history from a dealer he trusts, to do his long trips to Gascony, around the UK, and France. He generally runs them to 100,000 miles/150,000 km, or more, before moving on. He had a second-hand XK V8 convertible for a plaything for a couple of years, which he kept in France, dealer serviced. It was a lovely thing, but he got fed up with the bills for niggly repairs, and recurrent electrical issues, so got rid in favour of a Merc 500SL, which apart from a leaky roof seal, has been more reliable, and spent less time at the dealer's. He still runs a Jag, a 1949 XK120.

MSS · 3rd November 2018, 15:41

Well, the 2018 reliability survey shows Jags to be more or less the same as their Mercedes and BMW counterparts.

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2018-wh...-survey/n17811

They are all highly sophisticated cars which lead to characteristic failure metrics.

A Honda Jazz is at the other end of the sophistication scale with failure metrics to match.

Jim Jamieson · 3rd November 2018, 16:07

I’m not one for changing my cars on a regular basis. Our 75 diesel was 13 years old when we moved to a Jagjar XF. It was a lovely car and with low mileage plus full service history.
However during our ownership the car had more than its fair share of electrical gremlins. On top of that the appalling dealer service and finally the doors corroded through at just over 40k
I had to fight Jaguar tooth and nail to get them to replace them. As many of you will already know the car was written off just a few weeks later.
Had it not been for the accident I would still be running the XF as after working with a Jaguar franchise back in the 80’s I always yearned to own one some day but with the demise of the XF, I simply couldn’t return to the marque and moved to Mercedes.
We’ve had our 2017 CLS Shooting Brake for almost a year now and the reliability has been almost perfect with only a hiccup with the alarm which Mercedes put right.
Only time will tell how the JLR situation pans out.

victorgte · 3rd November 2018, 18:39

When Ford bought Jaguar they were horrified at the antiquated technology and methods at Browns Lane Coventry.
The original XJ-S was riddled with electrical problems.
The original XJ6 was so poorly made they needed to use filler on doors and panels to get gaps and fitting to look right before going to dealers.
Not only did I manage to read a lot about cars during 2017 when off work ill, I’ve known a former design rectifier from Jaguar for over 30 years. In his opinion as a trained engineer in the motor business, Jaguar have always fallen short on quality in every respect but have produced such desirable and exciting cars, they are an aspirational brand that we desire to buy.
There comes a point when buyers will move ship if the brand is so badly tarnished. That could be said of Rover and all its associated brands as people no longer aspired to having them anymore so sales dropped.
Jaguar could well be seeing such a decline perhaps?

oldcarguy · 4th November 2018, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by victorgte

Thirsty petrol engines, no hybrid and no electric car means JLR have set themselves up to fail. Add to that the comments about quality and reliability and they really have been winging it.
Sad as they really make some beautiful cars. I would still like a late nineties X300 saloon.

Get one while they are cheapish, they will only go up in value.

Lancpudn · 22nd April 2020, 11:00

JLR have just released their two Compliance PHEV's , A Discovery Sport & a Range Rover Evoque models with a 1.5ltr three cylinder turbocharged engine & a 80kW (107 HP) electric motor on the rear axle.

Both models come way below the 50g/km emission limit with 32g/km & 36g/km

https://insideevs.com/news/411384/la...y-sport-p300e/

Nick Greg · 22nd April 2020, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancpudn

JLR have just released their two Compliance PHEV's , A Discovery Sport & a Range Rover Evoque models with a 1.5ltr three cylinder turbocharged engine & a 80kW (107 HP) electric motor on the rear axle.

Both models come way below the 50g/km emission limit with 32g/km & 36g/km

https://insideevs.com/news/411384/la...y-sport-p300e/

They are low figures. I put out more than that from my own back side!

Lancpudn · 22nd April 2020, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Greg

They are low figures. I put out more than that from my own back side!

LOL

For a vehicle of that size it's remarkable, I have a Kia Niro hybrid & that has emissions of 90g/km. Auto makers whose cars comes in at 50g/km or lower will qualify them as two emission credits/car. It will reduce their fines from the Eu in 2021 that's for sure.

2nd November 2018, 22:56	#21
ziggy72 Posted a thing or two Jaguar S-Type R Audi A5 Sportback Join Date: May 2012 Location: Gateshead Posts: 1,009 Thanks: 823 Thanked 323 Times in 222 Posts	there has yet to be a manufacturer who has produced the 100% reliable car and probably never will be. i have to book cars into main dealers on a daily basis at work and sometimes have to wait a couple of weeks to get cars booked in as there service and warranty departments are fully booked especially VW and BMW. not many companies are producing or selling many electric vehicles at the moment, a few unstylish Toyotas and the odd nissan leaf come into work, a couple of big vauxhall Ampera's have been in and today a new wing and bumper was fitted to a hybrid Hyundai Ioniq which makes my S-type look pretty. most manufactures including Jaguar have electric and hybrids in the pipeline and will have to adapt but i won't happen overnight so petrol and diesel will continue for a long time yet. the big marques will move with the times whilst smaller companies will struggle though MG plan to have an electric vehicle out next summer. hopefully as sales increase parts will become more readily available for MG. we have an MG ZS in at work with front end damage with 400 mile on the clock and its been standing waiting for parts for 4 weeks so far with no estimated date for the new parts. none in the country at the moment we're told. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

3rd November 2018, 18:39	#26
victorgte I really should get out more....... MGTF, MGZT, Range Rover Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Cheltenham Posts: 2,803 Thanks: 395 Thanked 633 Times in 446 Posts	When Ford bought Jaguar they were horrified at the antiquated technology and methods at Browns Lane Coventry. The original XJ-S was riddled with electrical problems. The original XJ6 was so poorly made they needed to use filler on doors and panels to get gaps and fitting to look right before going to dealers. Not only did I manage to read a lot about cars during 2017 when off work ill, I’ve known a former design rectifier from Jaguar for over 30 years. In his opinion as a trained engineer in the motor business, Jaguar have always fallen short on quality in every respect but have produced such desirable and exciting cars, they are an aspirational brand that we desire to buy. There comes a point when buyers will move ship if the brand is so badly tarnished. That could be said of Rover and all its associated brands as people no longer aspired to having them anymore so sales dropped. Jaguar could well be seeing such a decline perhaps? __________________ MG TF 135, MG ZT, Range Rover P38

22nd April 2020, 11:00	#28
Lancpudn This is my second home MG ZS EV Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Lancashire Posts: 15,583 Thanks: 4,591 Thanked 3,427 Times in 2,565 Posts	JLR have just released their two Compliance PHEV's , A Discovery Sport & a Range Rover Evoque models with a 1.5ltr three cylinder turbocharged engine & a 80kW (107 HP) electric motor on the rear axle. Both models come way below the 50g/km emission limit with 32g/km & 36g/km https://insideevs.com/news/411384/la...y-sport-p300e/ __________________ Blessed are the tea makers. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3b...auto-2000_auto

3rd November 2018, 08:41	#22
MSS This is my second home Rover 75CDT, Jaguar XF-S 3.0V6, V'xhall Omega V6 Estate, Twintop 1.8VVT, Astra Estate and Corsa 1.2 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7,085 Thanks: 283 Thanked 624 Times in 440 Posts	In my opinion, most people here are mistaken about the type of person that buys a Jaguar or a mid-range upwards Mercedes, BMW etc. and the criteria on which their purchases are based. These cars are purchased by people with a reasonable amount of wealth to reflect their status in life, at work etc. The other important criteria is usually driveability. Reliability or resale values 5+ years down the line are not usually primary considerations. We, on the other hand, are people who buy relatively cheap and old cars. Reliability is a prime concern as that makes the difference between a good and a bad car from our perspective. When I used to take company cars, reliability was never a consideration. How the car looked and drove was far, far more important. Even now, and with my own money, nothing would stop me from wanting to buy a Jaguar or a Mercedes E-class upwards.

3rd November 2018, 15:19	#23
Comfortably Numb Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Penrith Posts: 1,336 Thanks: 165 Thanked 303 Times in 241 Posts	I accept that, as I only buy old cars, I can expect some reliability issues, and a fair bit of maintenance and improvement to get to a car that I can have confidence in. But if I was in the market to buy a brand new car at £40,000 +, the last thing I would expect is reliability problems, especially worse and more persistent ones than a mass-market car at half the price. I agree that few cars are perfect, but if 100 random Honda Jazz owners can give a 100% reliability report over 3 years ownership, I suggest that they are doing something right that JLR are not. My brother is a wealthy - ish man and could reasonably afford to buy any new car he liked up to £100,000. He prefers to buy 2 or 3 year old low milage VAG products, with a full service history from a dealer he trusts, to do his long trips to Gascony, around the UK, and France. He generally runs them to 100,000 miles/150,000 km, or more, before moving on. He had a second-hand XK V8 convertible for a plaything for a couple of years, which he kept in France, dealer serviced. It was a lovely thing, but he got fed up with the bills for niggly repairs, and recurrent electrical issues, so got rid in favour of a Merc 500SL, which apart from a leaky roof seal, has been more reliable, and spent less time at the dealer's. He still runs a Jag, a 1949 XK120.

3rd November 2018, 15:41	#24
MSS This is my second home Rover 75CDT, Jaguar XF-S 3.0V6, V'xhall Omega V6 Estate, Twintop 1.8VVT, Astra Estate and Corsa 1.2 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7,085 Thanks: 283 Thanked 624 Times in 440 Posts	Well, the 2018 reliability survey shows Jags to be more or less the same as their Mercedes and BMW counterparts. https://www.whatcar.com/news/2018-wh...-survey/n17811 They are all highly sophisticated cars which lead to characteristic failure metrics. A Honda Jazz is at the other end of the sophistication scale with failure metrics to match.

3rd November 2018, 16:07	#25
Jim Jamieson This is my second home Rover less ! Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Tarbolton Posts: 3,442 Thanks: 393 Thanked 888 Times in 542 Posts	I’m not one for changing my cars on a regular basis. Our 75 diesel was 13 years old when we moved to a Jagjar XF. It was a lovely car and with low mileage plus full service history. However during our ownership the car had more than its fair share of electrical gremlins. On top of that the appalling dealer service and finally the doors corroded through at just over 40k I had to fight Jaguar tooth and nail to get them to replace them. As many of you will already know the car was written off just a few weeks later. Had it not been for the accident I would still be running the XF as after working with a Jaguar franchise back in the 80’s I always yearned to own one some day but with the demise of the XF, I simply couldn’t return to the marque and moved to Mercedes. We’ve had our 2017 CLS Shooting Brake for almost a year now and the reliability has been almost perfect with only a hiccup with the alarm which Mercedes put right. Only time will tell how the JLR situation pans out.