I'm p....d (peeved?) off

Ray L · 29th September 2020, 15:26

In August I drove in my 75 cdti a relative to her home in South London a journey of over 100 miles from my own provincial home.

After leaving the M4 I went via Chelsea along the Embankment intending to cross the river at Vauxhall bridge.

Driving in the outside lane in order to turn right onto the bridge there was a notice advising that the bridge was closed so I had no alternative but to cross over into Millbank which inadvertently took me into the Ultra Low Emission Zone.

Just before the next bridge crossing I was relieved to see a large notice sign stating NO CONGESTION CHARGE (I presumed because of the necessity of having to take this alternative route). After crossing the bridge I left the Zone as quickly as possible onwards to my destination.

5 days later I received from Transport for London a Penalty Charge of £80 (or £160 if not paid promptly). I paid up but explained about the sign and asked to be excused. 2 days later I received another Penalty Charge ( again for £80) this time from the Ultra Low Emission Zone department.

The photo, date, location and time to the minute was exactly the same on both penalties. As this seemed like Double Jeopardy I wrote and complained.

Today told by ULEZ I must pay the second £80 or charge will be doubled. So my journey into London has cost me two fines of £80 each although each crime (?) was committed at exactly the same place and time and seemingly their signage was considered irrelevant.

I'm not a happy bunny.

AndyN01 · 29th September 2020, 15:50

You don't by any chance have dash cam footage of the signs?

Were there any "diverted traffic" signs/directions?

I'm not too sure that a Judge would uphold the penalty if there's a sign saying that there isn't a charge and you were following the "official" diversion. They might but then again they might not.

Excuse my ignorance but is the congestion charge and the ULEZ the same thing or two different things, each with their own penalty (sounds like the latter)?

For some reason I don't go anywhere remotely close to London and have no intention of doing so.

Andy.

Ray L · 29th September 2020, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyN01

You don't by any chance have dash cam footage of the signs?

Were there any "diverted traffic" signs/directions?

I'm not too sure that a Judge would uphold the penalty if there's a sign saying that there isn't a charge and you were following the "official" diversion. They might but then again they might not.

Excuse my ignorance but is the congestion charge and the ULEZ the same thing or two different things, each with their own penalty (sounds like the latter)?

For some reason I don't go anywhere remotely close to London and have no intention of doing so.

Andy.

Andy

Unfortunately I have not got a dash camera and I did not see any other signs. I would not like to go down the legal route. Their are apparently 2 zones (inner ULEZ) and outer (LEZ). As a provincial I was unaware there were two zones too.

wraymond · 29th September 2020, 17:57

In law, ignorance is no defence. You'll possibly find the signs will have been changed following protests but you will be met with a wall of silence because nobody cares what Joe Public thinks.

Driving to, through, or even near London is to be avoided at all costs. Even taking an Uber from the safe side of the limit is preferable to letting that poisonous individual sting you for his vanity box. I used to go to and through London for a variety of reasons but stopped when this rubbish started. Never again.

ADO282 · 29th September 2020, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by wraymond

In law, ignorance is no defence. You'll possibly find the signs will have been changed following protests but you will be met with a wall of silence because nobody cares what Joe Public thinks.

Driving to, through, or even near London is to be avoided at all costs. Even taking an Uber from the safe side of the limit is preferable to letting that poisonous individual sting you for his vanity box. I used to go to and through London for a variety of reasons but stopped when this rubbish started. Never again.

The only plus side (at the moment) when I moved my daughter from her old place at Primrose Hill to Wood Green, was the excursion I made to my old stomping ground for a cooked breakfast at the Ace Cafe

I hate driving in London, it is especially stressful to avoid the CONgestion Charge zone, and the ULEZ, heaven knows what will happen when the ULEZ is extended beyond the north circular, I've checked and my old bus is ULEZ compliant, but none of the diesel models are apparently........

As an aside, did anyone hear the bleating on R4 yesterday about the north circular not being a motorway?? I can't remember a time now where speed cameras and the like spoiled the fun of hammering around on the Velocette.

As a rule of thumb don't pay until you read the appeals processes, which can be found here........https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/con...penalty-charge

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ult...-charge-notice

Also read here.......https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ne...cessful---her/

I hate this type of thing, especially when through no fault of your own

Best of luck

trikey · 29th September 2020, 20:02

This is one of the reasons why you wont find me going into London.

Arctic · 30th September 2020, 00:24

[Q

Quote:

UOTE=trikey;2839485]This is one of the reasons why you wont find me going into London.

[/QUOTE]

Is it still called the big smoke

what a name for the capital, or is it now the big green

BoroRover · 30th September 2020, 06:27

London is an awful place.I think being charged to enter into it is an absolute disgrace, particularly with Citizen Khan doing all he can to make the roads almost impossible to traverse except if you walk or cycle.
Euston Road a prime example, two lanes, now one lane. It was very busy before he reduced lane capacity. Now, it's pure madness.
Ask any London cabbie.

Gigagator · 30th September 2020, 08:11

Being the sadist that I am, I quite enjoy driving in the centre of London.

I find it quite dicey and exciting driving around the small, overcrowded roads as the 75 is quite cumbersome. I took my partners 25 once and it was equally enjoyable as the 25 is quite nippy so it fit in great.

My best mate lives there now so I tend to drive up there every few months from here in Cardiff and make a day of it.

I last went there mid December last year, before Covid ruined everything, and while a little lost looking for my NCP car park in Mayfair much to my bemusement I found myself driving up Oxford Street!

Other notable times were driving across Tower Bridge and also right past Buckingham Palace - I wasn't really looking as was concentrating on the road but the other half enjoyed the sightseeing.

Top tip for anyone that didn't know, the congestion charge isn't in place on weekends so that's the time to go.

Also, you can check if your car is ULEZ compliant here: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/che...6?intcmp=35896

Interestingly, my 1.8 75 and 1.4 25 are both ULEZ compliant, but not sure about the diseasels.

LEZ doesn't apply to cars, it's mostly commercial vehicles.

And for anyone that says "Why don't you take the train?" - it's mostly because I like driving in London and like driving in general. Plus the flexibility of being able to arrive and leave whenever you want. There are usually weekend discounts at NCP car parks in the centre of London and I have regularly had a days parking work out cheaper than a days parking in an NCP in Cardiff.

*** EDIT ***
As raykay has pointed out below, the congestion charge does now apply on weekends as of June 2020 it seems.
So don't take my advise and go cruising on into London on a Saturday!

raykay · 30th September 2020, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigagator

Top tip for anyone that didn't know, the congestion charge isn't in place on weekends so that's the time to go.

It is now! https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/con...on-charge-zone

29th September 2020, 15:26	#1
Ray L Avid contributor rover 75 saloon Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Worcester Posts: 187 Thanks: 14 Thanked 49 Times in 27 Posts	I'm p....d (peeved?) off In August I drove in my 75 cdti a relative to her home in South London a journey of over 100 miles from my own provincial home. After leaving the M4 I went via Chelsea along the Embankment intending to cross the river at Vauxhall bridge. Driving in the outside lane in order to turn right onto the bridge there was a notice advising that the bridge was closed so I had no alternative but to cross over into Millbank which inadvertently took me into the Ultra Low Emission Zone. Just before the next bridge crossing I was relieved to see a large notice sign stating NO CONGESTION CHARGE (I presumed because of the necessity of having to take this alternative route). After crossing the bridge I left the Zone as quickly as possible onwards to my destination. 5 days later I received from Transport for London a Penalty Charge of £80 (or £160 if not paid promptly). I paid up but explained about the sign and asked to be excused. 2 days later I received another Penalty Charge ( again for £80) this time from the Ultra Low Emission Zone department. The photo, date, location and time to the minute was exactly the same on both penalties. As this seemed like Double Jeopardy I wrote and complained. Today told by ULEZ I must pay the second £80 or charge will be doubled. So my journey into London has cost me two fines of £80 each although each crime (?) was committed at exactly the same place and time and seemingly their signage was considered irrelevant. I'm not a happy bunny.

29th September 2020, 15:50	#2
AndyN01 This is my second home Toyota RAV4 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Tamworth Posts: 3,070 Thanks: 2,478 Thanked 1,579 Times in 968 Posts	You don't by any chance have dash cam footage of the signs? Were there any "diverted traffic" signs/directions? I'm not too sure that a Judge would uphold the penalty if there's a sign saying that there isn't a charge and you were following the "official" diversion. They might but then again they might not. Excuse my ignorance but is the congestion charge and the ULEZ the same thing or two different things, each with their own penalty (sounds like the latter)? For some reason I don't go anywhere remotely close to London and have no intention of doing so. Andy. Last edited by AndyN01; 29th September 2020 at 15:55..

29th September 2020, 17:57	#4
wraymond This is my second home 75 Auto 2.5 SE Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Westcliff on Sea Posts: 5,185 Thanks: 423 Thanked 1,680 Times in 1,014 Posts	In law, ignorance is no defence. You'll possibly find the signs will have been changed following protests but you will be met with a wall of silence because nobody cares what Joe Public thinks. Driving to, through, or even near London is to be avoided at all costs. Even taking an Uber from the safe side of the limit is preferable to letting that poisonous individual sting you for his vanity box. I used to go to and through London for a variety of reasons but stopped when this rubbish started. Never again. __________________ member no. 235

29th September 2020, 20:02	#6
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,764 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	This is one of the reasons why you wont find me going into London. __________________ Lest we forget..

30th September 2020, 08:11	#9
Gigagator Avid contributor Rover 75 Saloon, Rover 25, Mazda 6 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cardiff Posts: 219 Thanks: 143 Thanked 112 Times in 49 Posts	Being the sadist that I am, I quite enjoy driving in the centre of London. I find it quite dicey and exciting driving around the small, overcrowded roads as the 75 is quite cumbersome. I took my partners 25 once and it was equally enjoyable as the 25 is quite nippy so it fit in great. My best mate lives there now so I tend to drive up there every few months from here in Cardiff and make a day of it. I last went there mid December last year, before Covid ruined everything, and while a little lost looking for my NCP car park in Mayfair much to my bemusement I found myself driving up Oxford Street! Other notable times were driving across Tower Bridge and also right past Buckingham Palace - I wasn't really looking as was concentrating on the road but the other half enjoyed the sightseeing. Top tip for anyone that didn't know, the congestion charge isn't in place on weekends so that's the time to go. Also, you can check if your car is ULEZ compliant here: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/che...6?intcmp=35896 Interestingly, my 1.8 75 and 1.4 25 are both ULEZ compliant, but not sure about the diseasels. LEZ doesn't apply to cars, it's mostly commercial vehicles. And for anyone that says "Why don't you take the train?" - it's mostly because I like driving in London and like driving in general. Plus the flexibility of being able to arrive and leave whenever you want. There are usually weekend discounts at NCP car parks in the centre of London and I have regularly had a days parking work out cheaper than a days parking in an NCP in Cardiff. * EDIT * As raykay has pointed out below, the congestion charge does now apply on weekends as of June 2020 it seems. So don't take my advise and go cruising on into London on a Saturday! Last edited by Gigagator; 30th September 2020 at 11:38..

30th September 2020, 06:27	#8
BoroRover Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Middlesbrough Posts: 1,518 Thanks: 1,861 Thanked 723 Times in 471 Posts	London is an awful place.I think being charged to enter into it is an absolute disgrace, particularly with Citizen Khan doing all he can to make the roads almost impossible to traverse except if you walk or cycle. Euston Road a prime example, two lanes, now one lane. It was very busy before he reduced lane capacity. Now, it's pure madness. Ask any London cabbie.