Smart Motorways - Panorama investigation

[MarkS]

BBC News - 38 killed on smart motorways in last five years
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51236375

"Sir Mike Penning agreed to the expansion in 2010 after a successful pilot on the M42 near Birmingham.
The pilot worked well because there were safe stopping points for motorists, called emergency safety refuges, on average every 600 metres.
But when the scheme was expanded across the country, the safety refuges were placed further apart. On some sections, they are 2.5 miles apart."



Apparently one warning sign on the M25 had been out of action for 336 days.

Corporate manslaughter charges comes to mind.

[bendrick]

Quite some years ago breaking down in a car on whichever motorway we were on heading to Peterborough for a football game rang the AA and decamped over the barrier onto the adjoining verge / farmland.

A police car appeared before the breakdown truck and the thick as mince police officer ordered us all to get back in the car until the AA arrived. I understand that this was their policy at the time for some bizarre reason.

I refused until the idiot in uniform insisted that he would arrest me if I didn't get back in the car, after a tense standoff I reluctantly complied and spent a very unpleasant and frightening 30 minutes waiting for the breakdown truck.

I add this experience to my long list of reasons of why I generally regard the police to be idiots.

[wraymond]

Looking forward to the programme tonight.

Having been told in no uncertain terms, rather than 'given', advice by police whilst broken down on a motorway some years ago I would recommend observing the officer's epaulet number for future reference. Won't go in to what happened but doing that eventually halted a court case against me. Don't know what happened to the officer but I hope it involved a further training course. The only time I ever had cause to question the police.

Traffic management measures can be misleading. The speed reduction signs might be several miles in advance of the congestion to effectively reduce the build up and so have no observable effect. By the time the bottle neck is reached the congestion may have been successfully cleared.

[roverbarmy]

Originally Posted by bendrick

I add this experience to my long list of reasons of why I generally regard the police to be idiots.

Sorry but have to disagree. I worked with the motorway Police on many occasions. Every single one I worked with deserved a medal for putting themselves in the firing line to protect me and those being recovered.


One officer that I know of lost his life when a vehicle ran into him as he was getting equipment from the boot of his vehicle whilst on the hard shoulder. All the lights were illuminated and flashing at the time.


I have ultimate respect for them as they have an extremely difficult job to do, in very challenging circumstances. They have to follow laid down procedures and that is that.

[bendrick]

Originally Posted by roverbarmy

Sorry but have to disagree. I worked with the motorway Police on many occasions. Every single one I worked with deserved a medal for putting themselves in the firing line to protect me and those being recovered.


One officer that I know of lost his life when a vehicle ran into him as he was getting equipment from the boot of his vehicle whilst on the hard shoulder. All the lights were illuminated and flashing at the time.


I have ultimate respect for them as they have an extremely difficult job to do, in very challenging circumstances. They have to follow laid down procedures and that is that.

Fair enough we'll just have to agree to disagree based in individual experience.

Your example illustrates exactly my point however, we didn't even have the benefit of flashing lights on our car as myself and my companions were still ordered back into the car on the threat of arrest.

As regards procedures in place then or now if a strapper in a car can see that its dangerous staying in a car on the hard shoulder then I see no reason to respect a police officer or force that insists everyone gets back into a death trap waiting to happen on the hard shoulder which tells us everything we need to know about the intelligence of those in charge of 'procedures'

[AndyN01]

Originally Posted by bendrick

........ those in charge of 'procedures'

Ah, yes, procedures.....

A few years ago I had the great privilege of attending a "Roadkills" conference. Speakers included the Minister responsible for road safety, the Chief Constable responsible for national road Policing and the very early results/findings from an experimental "black box" being developed by a group of University boffins.

One of the speakers was the then Consultant who wrote all the "procedures/protocols" for the "first on the scene" paramedics to follow for road casualties.

One seriously difficult job and the speaker's level of knowledge & experience was obviously immense as was their passion and commitment to do the absolute best for anyone/everyone unfortunate enough to need paramedics.

I'll remember for the rest of my life their opening quote....

"No protocol survives its collision with reality"

I reckon that puts it all into context .

Andy.

[Nick Greg]

I add this experience to my long list of reasons of why I generally regard the police to be idiots.

mmmm.....

I sincerely hope that you might review this opinion should you ever find the need to require the presence of the police in an emergency where you need their help.

[planenut]

We can all lambast the entire workforce for the ill-placed advice of one - I try not to.

[bobb12005]

The hard shoulder was originally for emergency use, take it away and how are the emergency services going to reach the scene of an accident.
Personally i prefer to avoid motorways as far as possible.

[bendrick]

Originally Posted by Nick Greg

I add this experience to my long list of reasons of why I generally regard the police to be idiots.

mmmm.....

I sincerely hope that you might review this opinion should you ever find the need to require the presence of the police in an emergency where you need their help.

I sincerely hope that the police do the job that they accept the pay to do along with the generous pension provision.

I have been disappointed on many occasions down the years with such responses and subsequent action.

If they wish to accept the pay then yes I do expect the presence of the police to help any member of the public where they need their help. If they don't wish to do so then they need to quit and do something else to earn a living.