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Old 22nd September 2020, 13:28   #1
KillerKilane
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Default MG Zt-t 1.8T Non-start.

Hi!
I own a 2005 MG Zt-t 1.8T.
After some days with heavy rain my car would start, but went dead after a few minutes. It would then start again, but this time die out after a few seconds. I am aware of the problem with water in the plenums, and I have opened the drains before, but it seemed like there may have been some water on some parts this time. I let it dry up and after reading up on forums about "FFS" I ordered and installed fuel filter and O-rings for the In-tank-pump, and also installed that little plastic clip (former Fabled Orange Clip, now white) to prevent the fuel filter casing to come apart. It sure seemed necessary, as the old o-ring had broken and dissolved, causing the fuel inside the filter casing to be quite black. 
However, it seems my problem wasn't just FFS / lacking pressure from the fuel pump.The car would still not start yesterday, after fitting the new filter, O-rings and the Fabled Orange (White) Clip.
I turn the key to 2.nd pos., and then I believe I hear the in-tank-pump priming, as well as a sound from the engine-room (under-bonnet-pump, I suppose?). They both seem to prime for 4-5 seconds. I don't think I can hear them pump during cranking, but I could be wrong - it's hard to tell for sure. Could this point to a faulty crankshaft sensor? I have bought a replacement. Also a replacement camshaft sensor (Without the lead. I am not yet sure if this is the right camshaft replacement part). 
As I crank the engine, the needle giving the reading on the rpm seems to be moving just a little bit, not totally still.

I have also searched and read posts describing the placement of the inertia/fuel cut off-switch, but I just can't find it in my car (I live in Norway, the driver's wheel is on the left side, if that makes any difference). Is it BEHIND the glove box, or to the side? Pictures would be a great help! 
To make things worse, my passenger side front door won't open, since last winter it froze. This makes checking/changing fuses and relays under the glove box quite difficult. Haven't found out how to open this...But first things first. I'm focusing on getting the engine started.

Other things that might play a part in identifying the problem(s):
It could be electrical. Earlier I've had trouble with water on the floor of the car. Actually ended up drilling a hole through the floor. I have checked a few fuses that I think would be relevant, but I guess I'll have to do a more thorough round to check all fuses and relays (received some relays from Rimmer Bros yesterday). I swapped the under glove box-relay for the horn over with the one for the fuel pump, and it seemed like the one to the pump might have been faulty. It works now, I think.
Also, recently the airbag fault-light would appear/disappear for a few weeks time. This indicates water on the floor, I suppose? And I need to be careful about these connectors, I understand?

If anyone wanna give me some pointers, it would be much appreciated!

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Old 22nd September 2020, 13:47   #2
T-Cut
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From everything you've described, my gut feel is there's still a problem with the fuel filter. Did you replace all the o-rings exactly as they were? I ask because mine had the same problem after renewing the filter. I'd not replaced the large ring correctly before fitting the orange clip.

You might try to measure the fuel pressure at the Schrader valve on the end of the fuel rail. Either a proper pressure gauge attachment or using a mechanical tyre gauge (not electrical). It must read 50psi or more when the starter is operated.

Related thread: https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/s...d.php?t=251001
There may be more.

TC

Last edited by T-Cut; 22nd September 2020 at 13:52..
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Old 23rd September 2020, 08:53   #3
KillerKilane
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Thanks for the reply!
I felt very sure that I got everything right when I put the filter, O-rings and clip back together. The two parts of the filter casing also seemed aligned, tight and sealed. However, I had to use much force to get them to turn the 1/8th turn to seal. And later I read in someone else's post that it should not be very hard, the parts should be easier to screw back together if o-rings were placed correctly. Maybe, maybe...

There seems to be a kind of "gargling" sound from the in-tank-filter (I don't think it's the in-tank-pump, but maybe?) during priming. I thought it would go away after a few rounds of priming, but no. This would perhaps indicate air/lack of pressure? So I guess I need to go over everything once more.
I will also check the in-tank-pump to see if some tube has come loose or something.

Thank you very much for your reply! Help is appreciated.
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Old 23rd September 2020, 10:24   #4
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I see you're in the Stavanger area, Beinet 1(Einar) is in Sandnes and should you require further help it's worth contacting him. He posts quite often on the Norwegian FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1534...29381/members/ and of course I'm sure you'd be more than welcome to join the group.

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Old 23rd September 2020, 10:31   #5
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I would go with T Cut -if the O ring is not correctly sited it will still cause fuel pressure to drop.

If still no joy after checking the filter i would look at the crank sensor - following a cut out/stall as your rev counter is moving when you turn her over it shows the crank sensor is not dead - but they do fail/falter when hot but then work again when cooled down. Next time she cuts out get some freeze spray on the crank sensor - if she starts straight away it points to a faulty sensor
.
As to the ECU -MGR Petrol ECU's are sealed - its the unsealed diesel ECU that is prone to issues with water ingress.
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Old 23rd September 2020, 11:51   #6
KillerKilane
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Thank you, Vitesse and Yorkshire GOC! I see that I have made 0 thanks. Pardon me, but I just don't know how to thank you?

Thanks for the heads up about Beinet 1, my fellow Norwegian. Good to know!

Yes, I will have another go at the fuel filter, like T-Cut suggested. (I just hope the tank is not too full now. After fitting the filter, I added 3 liters of fuel, as I understood this was recommended after having done the change).
I'm also gonna check the fuel pressure at the rail today(think I found the Schroder valve), but not sure if I could check the pressure by myself, or if I need someone to crank the engine while I measure?

Yorkshire GOC: Yes, the rev counter moves a tiny little bit during cranking, so if the crankshaft sensor was the culprit it would stay totally still at 0, I assume? Thanks!
I also have a new replacement camshaft sensor, but I was not able to figure out where it's located. Searched, but just could not find a picture of it that I understood... Probably basic knowledge, but beats me..

Last edited by KillerKilane; 23rd September 2020 at 11:54..
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Old 23rd September 2020, 12:20   #7
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You're most welcome, I believe you've got to make something like a minimum of 10 posts before the "thanks" option becomes available.

I checked my fuel pressure myself. I had a screw on adapter in the pressure kit and just taped the gauge so I could view it through the windscreen.

I've a V6 so can't help with the position but Einar will know as he's rebuilt at least one 1.8

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Old 23rd September 2020, 12:27   #8
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Thanks again!
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Old 23rd September 2020, 13:36   #9
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I also have a new replacement camshaft sensor, but I was not able to figure out where it's located. Searched, but just could not find a picture of it that I understood... Probably basic knowledge, but beats me..[/QUOTE]

On the 1.8t the CAM sensor is on top of engine between the spark plugs - but as you describe it the car starts then cuts out - if the CAM sensor has packed up she would not start at all.

Simple rule of thumb - failed/failing CRANK sensor can cause non-starts and cut outs

failed/failing CAM sensor will only cause non-starts.

The Cam sensor only comes into play at engine ignition and thereafter does nothing.

The Crank sensor operates at ignition and also with the engine in operation telling the ECU the engine Revs - so if it fails it can cause cut outs/stalls as
well as non starts.
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Old 23rd September 2020, 13:39   #10
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Also a classic non start reason for the 1.8t is a corroded/dirty spade connector to the starter motor. Give it a good clean up. For future reference/prevention.
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