Engaging in that ZT-T?

JagDriver · 7th May 2024, 18:30

Hello everybody,

I just joined this forum as I am, of course, interested in the Rover 75/MG ZT series. I am actually from Germany, so these cars are not that common over here, but anyway some were sold when they were new, mostly Rover 75 Saloon and Estate but also some ZT/ZT-T.

I already own a Jaguar XJ40 which is giving me headache frequently, so I am not new to british cars

.

And I always liked the 75/ZT since they were presented to the public but never managed to buy one as long as they were rather new. But the last few years they caught my attention again and I was looking for a proper one every now and then.

Unfortunately nowadays most of these cars are in a rather bad and neglected condition because they were cheap and usable. So I ran away from most of them once I had seen them.

I had almost given up as recently I encountered another ZT-T just about 100km away from here. So I got there and what I found wasn't in a really good condition but not as bad as many others. Interior and Exterior is in acceptable condition, car is complete, timing belt has been recently done (2022), Airco works, clutch is okish, inlet manifold is not noisy, though the engine sounds a little rough and wasn't running that strong (for my feeling).

But of course there are some real drawbacks: it has no MOT (but the seller would be willing to renew it if the price is right), the ABS-lamp is on, the Airbag-lamp is coming on occasionally, PDC is giving an error and the worst: the rear door sills are really bad and need to be replaced.

There are actually two issues that make me hesitate:

1. Door sills are pretty common and fixable, but I sneaked further below the car and also found the rear trailing arm toe in brackets look pretty rough. Since they belong to the rear suspension, German MOT might give them attention and if they are not solid, it will fail MOT. I have seen these brackets as replacements parts, but I wonder if there is enough left below to attach them to. Is that a common issue? Anybody ever fixed or replaced that area?

2. As I mentioned the engine sounds a little rough, not as smooth as I got to know the KV6. Besides that I found it a bit weak, didn't feel like 190 horses and it sometimes hesitated to take throttle and was a bit shaky around 1500rpm. But I am pretty sure it ran on all cylinders, also no black or white smoke noticable.

I have uploaded some pics and a vid from the running engine, maybe someone can give his opinion on it.

Thank you in advance,
Oliver

Rich in Vancouver · 7th May 2024, 21:46

Welcome!
I would pass on that ZT for the rust alone.
I am in Canada and have owned two European market ZT's.
The first was a ZT from The Netherlands and the second which I bought in 2021 is a ZT-T from Westfalia.
Both of these cars were totally rust free and in good shape mechanically. Of course, being old used cars there are always things to sort out, but nothing major. There are cars in good condition available in Europe and I would suggest that you take a look at the website for the European 75/ZT club, "Club75".
My ZT-T came from one of their executive members and is in fantastic condition.
http://www.r75.info/?fbclid=IwZXh0bg...-RgLAZG90rXAOG

JagDriver · 7th May 2024, 22:58

Thank you for your reply.

Actually I think there are no more good cars around here (for sale), haven't seen any for years. All adds I have recently seen were in pretty bad condition: damaged bodywork, rust, messy interior, no recent maintenance done (timing belt is always due). I am afraid this ZT-T is as good as it can get. I am sometimes looking at the swiss market, but there are no ZT-Ts at all.

Maybe there have been some 75 Saloons with low mileage, but these are rather not of my interest, I'd like to have a ZT-T, or a 75 Tourer with a V6, preferrably 2.5 and those are really rare.

SD1too · 8th May 2024, 07:47

Hello Oliver and

to the club.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagDriver

1. ... the rear trailing arm toe-in brackets look pretty rough ... Is that a common issue? Anybody ever fixed or replaced that area?

That area typically does have surface rust but my car is about as old as they get and I've never had an MOT failure or comment on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagDriver

2. ... the engine ... I found it a bit weak, didn't feel like 190 horses ...

Check that both VIS actuators are working, that the balance valve isn't stuck mid-way and that the power linkage is free of excessive play. The crankcase breather orifice in the cam covers gets blocked with carbon deposits which affects performance significantly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagDriver

I have uploaded some pics and a vid from the running engine, maybe someone can give his opinion on it.

Unfortunately Google won't allow me to play your video.

Simon

JagDriver · 8th May 2024, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD1too

Hello Oliver and

to the club.

That area typically does have surface rust but my car is about as old as they get and I've never had an MOT failure or comment on it.

Hi Simon,

thank, you

.
I think german MOT is a little more strict than yours, if the examinant is able to poke a hole in the floor somewhere, it's usually a MOT fail. And when I look at picture #6 from my album at the hole between the two bolts that hold the bracket in place, it looks pretty crusty behind. The other side (#7 and #8) looks better, but it also looks like someone already messed around there with spray-paint. Might look worse on the pics than in reality, but it makes me a little nervous, the car is actually too pricy for a flash in the pan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD1too

Check that both VIS actuators are working, that the balance valve isn't stuck mid-way and that the power linkage is free of excessive play. The crankcase breather orifice in the cam covers gets blocked with carbon deposits which affects performance significantly.

Isn't it the VIS actuators that cause noisy inlet manifolds? Or is that a different story? I have seen these VIS actuators are getting rare ... and pricy

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD1too

Unfortunately Google won't allow me to play your video.

Simon

Maybe try this link then. Should actually allow you to either view or download the vid.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17BG...usp=drive_link

Oliver

EDIT: Just changed the file permission, should now be accessible to anyone who has the link.

SD1too · 8th May 2024, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagDriver

Isn't it the VIS actuators that cause noisy inlet manifolds? Or is that a different story? I have seen these VIS actuators are getting rare ... and pricy

.

It's a rattling power valve linkage which creates the noise. The actuators (a separate part) can still be bought new as far as I know but better still, we have a club member (Stocktake) who can repair and refurbish yours with added features if requested.

Simon

JagDriver · 8th May 2024, 22:20

Is there actually a way to check VIS actuators in the car? By software diagnostics for example (do they set error codes?), or do they have to come out for checking them?

Did you manage to see the video in the meantime? To me it almost sounds like a generator or climate compressor that is under constant load, or maybe even a belt or pulley that is over-tensioned. Turning off AC doesn't make a difference, so it's definitely no the climate compressor.

SD1too · 9th May 2024, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagDriver

Is there actually a way to check VIS actuators in the car? By software diagnostics for example (do they set error codes?)

Yes, T4 can test them in situ and yes, they do set error codes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagDriver

Did you manage to see the video in the meantime? To me it almost sounds like ...

Yes, thank you for the new link. Subject to the limitations of sound quality from a laptop, your engine sounds fine to me except for a whine. You could try the old trick touching a stout screwdriver blade near the alternator and power steering pump bearings with the handle held against your ear.

Simon

Matt_75 · 9th May 2024, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagDriver

Is there actually a way to check VIS actuators in the car? By software diagnostics for example (do they set error codes?)

They can also be tested with TOAF and probably P-Scan.

https://toaf.roverki.eu/index.php/en/

https://pscan.uk/

When testing them with TOAF, do this with the engine not running, but the electrics turned on. When you click the test button, you should hear each motor move back and forth four times. If it's silent, the motor requires repair or replacement.

JagDriver · 9th May 2024, 16:07

Alright, I also found new VIS actuators for reasonable money, as a last resort, so this shouldn't be too much of a topic. By the way: a generic OBD2 tool will not help here (or with any 75/ZT)?

However, sounds like the engine (and noise) issues should be fixable without throwing too much money at them. Good to hear since my Jag is a fully-grown money pit, I'd prefer to not (and cannot afford to) have yet another one

.

So it's up to the rust issues ... and of course how ready to negotiate the seller (actually a dealer) is. The price he is currently asking for in as-is condition is way to high, the price in ready-to-go (with MOT) condition is within reason, but I doubt his calculation will work here. When I see what alone the panels for the rear door sills and jacking points cost, the labour of his mechanic must be very cheap. Or he will just botch it and I can do it again (and then properly) at latest for the next MOT.

7th May 2024, 18:30	#1
JagDriver Newbie None yet Join Date: May 2024 Location: Rhein/Main Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Engaging in that ZT-T? Hello everybody, I just joined this forum as I am, of course, interested in the Rover 75/MG ZT series. I am actually from Germany, so these cars are not that common over here, but anyway some were sold when they were new, mostly Rover 75 Saloon and Estate but also some ZT/ZT-T. I already own a Jaguar XJ40 which is giving me headache frequently, so I am not new to british cars. And I always liked the 75/ZT since they were presented to the public but never managed to buy one as long as they were rather new. But the last few years they caught my attention again and I was looking for a proper one every now and then. Unfortunately nowadays most of these cars are in a rather bad and neglected condition because they were cheap and usable. So I ran away from most of them once I had seen them. I had almost given up as recently I encountered another ZT-T just about 100km away from here. So I got there and what I found wasn't in a really good condition but not as bad as many others. Interior and Exterior is in acceptable condition, car is complete, timing belt has been recently done (2022), Airco works, clutch is okish, inlet manifold is not noisy, though the engine sounds a little rough and wasn't running that strong (for my feeling). But of course there are some real drawbacks: it has no MOT (but the seller would be willing to renew it if the price is right), the ABS-lamp is on, the Airbag-lamp is coming on occasionally, PDC is giving an error and the worst: the rear door sills are really bad and need to be replaced. There are actually two issues that make me hesitate: 1. Door sills are pretty common and fixable, but I sneaked further below the car and also found the rear trailing arm toe in brackets look pretty rough. Since they belong to the rear suspension, German MOT might give them attention and if they are not solid, it will fail MOT. I have seen these brackets as replacements parts, but I wonder if there is enough left below to attach them to. Is that a common issue? Anybody ever fixed or replaced that area? 2. As I mentioned the engine sounds a little rough, not as smooth as I got to know the KV6. Besides that I found it a bit weak, didn't feel like 190 horses and it sometimes hesitated to take throttle and was a bit shaky around 1500rpm. But I am pretty sure it ran on all cylinders, also no black or white smoke noticable. I have uploaded some pics and a vid from the running engine, maybe someone can give his opinion on it. Thank you in advance, Oliver

7th May 2024, 21:46	#2
Rich in Vancouver Gets stuck in MG ZT-T Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: White Rock, BC on Canada's Pacific Coast Posts: 862 Thanks: 338 Thanked 367 Times in 210 Posts	Welcome! I would pass on that ZT for the rust alone. I am in Canada and have owned two European market ZT's. The first was a ZT from The Netherlands and the second which I bought in 2021 is a ZT-T from Westfalia. Both of these cars were totally rust free and in good shape mechanically. Of course, being old used cars there are always things to sort out, but nothing major. There are cars in good condition available in Europe and I would suggest that you take a look at the website for the European 75/ZT club, "Club75". My ZT-T came from one of their executive members and is in fantastic condition. http://www.r75.info/?fbclid=IwZXh0bg...-RgLAZG90rXAOG __________________ ZT-T190, Anthracite, LHD, Left the Line on June 24, 2002, Sold new in Switzerland, spent time in Germany, Imported to Canada in September 2021 Last edited by Rich in Vancouver; 7th May 2024 at 21:57..

9th May 2024, 16:07	#10
JagDriver Newbie None yet Join Date: May 2024 Location: Rhein/Main Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Alright, I also found new VIS actuators for reasonable money, as a last resort, so this shouldn't be too much of a topic. By the way: a generic OBD2 tool will not help here (or with any 75/ZT)? However, sounds like the engine (and noise) issues should be fixable without throwing too much money at them. Good to hear since my Jag is a fully-grown money pit, I'd prefer to not (and cannot afford to) have yet another one. So it's up to the rust issues ... and of course how ready to negotiate the seller (actually a dealer) is. The price he is currently asking for in as-is condition is way to high, the price in ready-to-go (with MOT) condition is within reason, but I doubt his calculation will work here. When I see what alone the panels for the rear door sills and jacking points cost, the labour of his mechanic must be very cheap. Or he will just botch it and I can do it again (and then properly) at latest for the next MOT.

7th May 2024, 22:58	#3
JagDriver Newbie None yet Join Date: May 2024 Location: Rhein/Main Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for your reply. Actually I think there are no more good cars around here (for sale), haven't seen any for years. All adds I have recently seen were in pretty bad condition: damaged bodywork, rust, messy interior, no recent maintenance done (timing belt is always due). I am afraid this ZT-T is as good as it can get. I am sometimes looking at the swiss market, but there are no ZT-Ts at all. Maybe there have been some 75 Saloons with low mileage, but these are rather not of my interest, I'd like to have a ZT-T, or a 75 Tourer with a V6, preferrably 2.5 and those are really rare.

8th May 2024, 22:20	#7
JagDriver Newbie None yet Join Date: May 2024 Location: Rhein/Main Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is there actually a way to check VIS actuators in the car? By software diagnostics for example (do they set error codes?), or do they have to come out for checking them? Did you manage to see the video in the meantime? To me it almost sounds like a generator or climate compressor that is under constant load, or maybe even a belt or pulley that is over-tensioned. Turning off AC doesn't make a difference, so it's definitely no the climate compressor.