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Old 28th June 2019, 07:36   #61
Nick Greg
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Originally Posted by Darcydog View Post
I know that - overall the members contribution equates to circa 6%. If you take an average across the board it is about 4.6%.

Regardless of the tiny employees contribution - the employer (ie US -the taxpayer contributes a further circa 19%.

The scheme is a non-funded defined benefit scheme with an open ended liability. A liability that we the tax payer has to pick up.

Being non-funded - it was civil servants that devised Gordon Browns very first stealth tax whereby dividend income within pension schemes are taxed.

Obviously only funded schemes are hit.

Strange how those in charge of all Pension Scheme Legislation devised a tax that did NOT hit THEIR scheme - but DID hit all those schemes where the individual or company/employer actually has to SAVE MONEY for their retirement and not rely on just snatching what they need from the public purse.
How do you know that? You would need to know how many civil servants are in each of the different contributions bands to work that out. I doubt even HM Government knows that information? A statement plucked out of thin air! So whilst we are challenging this posters claims lets issue another challenge. A few days ago this member sought fit to make a cheap shot political post by way of an ingnorant and snide swipe at teenagers with Aspergers syndrome. I have already challenged this member to apologise for this but to date no such apology or response has been posted. I await a response. In the meantime I would take any claims of integrity or fatual accuracy on the part of this member with a pinch of salt

Last edited by Nick Greg; 28th June 2019 at 07:37.. Reason: typo
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Old 28th June 2019, 08:32   #62
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Personal pensions are just a means of saving a person's earnings, be it with tax advantages. It should be obvious that my comments were related to the general state pension which in my view should be means tested and would therefore take account of a personal pension as an income and/or accumulated wealth.

As for civil servants, and state employees in general, it was my understanding that the pension benefits were in fact offset by generally lower salaries relative to the private sector.

With any proposal, it is important to look at the whole proposal rather than picking individual bits. The fact is that the country as a whole is debt ridden and is exhausting resources at a faster rate than it generates. There is a need for a fundamental rethink of our approach to life, wealth etc.
One again “your understanding” is a bit off the mark to say the least Maninder.

The ONS (Office of National Statistics) in its 2017 report (on 2016 data) found that Public Sector workers on average earned 13% more than their equivalents in the Private Sector.

Couple this with the gold plated pension the Public Sector enjoys and you can see how and why those in the Private Sector feel that they are being disadvantaged.

It’s worth making a few actual facts available rather than “reading between the lines” such that ones “understanding” is worth diddlysquat.

If someone works in the Public Sector for 40 years then under the old 1/80th scheme they would get 40/80ths of their final salary as a pension and 3 times that amount as a lump sum.

The new scheme is based on average salary but has a bigger percentage - for example the new Teachers scheme is based upon 1/57th’s.

But whatever scheme you enjoy as a Public Sector Worker it is guaranteed and is a Defined Benefit Scheme however the benefits are defined.

So how much is it worth?

Well when the HMRC works out the LTA (Life Time Allowance) on pensions it takes the Fund Value of a Defined Contribution (or Money Purchase Scheme as they are also known) and they work out the equivalent “fund value” of a Defined Benefit Scheme by multiplying the pension income by 20 and adding the tax free cash.

If we look at a civil servant on £40k a year who gets 40/80ths of final salary then this is £20k a year as a pension.

Multiply this by 20 and you get £400,000 -plus the lumps sum of three times the pension so that is 3x£20 = £60k

So the equivalent fund value of this realistic example of a Public Sector worker is

£460,000

Contrast that to the average pension pot that Private Sector workers accrue - based on research by LV (Liverpool Victoria) in 2017 :-


£71,342.
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Old 28th June 2019, 08:39   #63
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Originally Posted by Nick Greg View Post
How do you know that? You would need to know how many civil servants are in each of the different contributions bands to work that out. I doubt even HM Government knows that information? A statement plucked out of thin air! So whilst we are challenging this posters claims lets issue another challenge. A few days ago this member sought fit to make a cheap shot political post by way of an ingnorant and snide swipe at teenagers with Aspergers syndrome. I have already challenged this member to apologise for this but to date no such apology or response has been posted. I await a response. In the meantime I would take any claims of integrity or fatual accuracy on the part of this member with a pinch of salt
I make no apology for stating facts.

The 16 year old in question does suffer from Asperger’s Syndrome. I made no general comment on teenagers with Aspergers at all.

That is pure spin and misinformation by you!

Whilst I am very sorry for her misfortune - I question the wisdom of putting her on a pedestal when it comes to mitigation of Climate Change and the damage we are doing to our environment.

Once again - you take issue with a particular fact - and in such desperation to shut that fact down and hide it from view - you attack the “player not the ball”.

This is typical of a certain type of persons response to a genuine and real challenge to their “beliefs’

Last edited by Darcydog; 28th June 2019 at 08:52..
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Old 28th June 2019, 08:51   #64
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I shall remind others what the offensive post from this vacuous individual was. You make your own judgement gents...

Sadly tho - we have governments that listen to 16 year old children with Aspergers Syndrome and set their policies by that influence rather than reality and common sense.

This is in any ones books is an offensive and ignorant comment from someone with no moral substance.

I challenged the poster twice (Darcy Dog or as I refer to him as Last Word) to offer an apology for this slur on those who have this condition and look what happens. Tries to wriggle his way out of it.

As stated you make your own judgements. Personally he is a liability on this forum and chooses to pick and choose post to deviate them into a political diatribe usually, and also will never countenance any opinion contrary to his.
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Old 28th June 2019, 08:55   #65
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Originally Posted by Nick Greg View Post
I shall remind others what the offensive post from this vacuous individual was. You make your own judgement gents...

Sadly tho - we have governments that listen to 16 year old children with Aspergers Syndrome and set their policies by that influence rather than reality and common sense.

This is in any ones books is an offensive and ignorant comment from someone with no moral substance.

I challenged the poster twice (Darcy Dog or as I refer to him as Last Word) to offer an apology for this slur on those who have this condition and look what happens. Tries to wriggle his way out of it.

As stated you make your own judgements. Personally he is a liability on this forum and chooses to pick and choose post to deviate them into a political diatribe usually, and also will never countenance any opinion contrary to his.
I find this rather bizarre and amusing. How you you can manipulate facts and then accuse others of doing just that is beyond me.
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Old 28th June 2019, 08:59   #66
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Originally Posted by Nick Greg View Post
I shall remind others what the offensive post from this vacuous individual was. You make your own judgement gents...

Sadly tho - we have governments that listen to 16 year old children with Aspergers Syndrome and set their policies by that influence rather than reality and common sense.

This is in any ones books is an offensive and ignorant comment from someone with no moral substance.

I challenged the poster twice (Darcy Dog or as I refer to him as Last Word) to offer an apology for this slur on those who have this condition and look what happens. Tries to wriggle his way out of it.

As stated you make your own judgements. Personally he is a liability on this forum and chooses to pick and choose post to deviate them into a political diatribe usually, and also will never countenance any opinion contrary to his.
I’ve just re-read what I wrote on another thread - I see no issue with it at all.

It is clearly a criticism of Government rather than anyone with a medical condition.

I am happy with what I said and I am happy for Nick to repeat it here. Even if the motivation is highly dubious.
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Old 28th June 2019, 09:04   #67
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Answer the challenge that you posted an offensive and insulting slur against people with Aspergers syndrome. Simple question.
As usual a squirming response. You just can't accept criticism can you?

Seeing as you like using long words try this one. You are ranthoneous. Look it up. And yes I did google it (where most of your "facts based" posts emanate from)
One tings for sure. I'd hate you on my pub quiz team. Yes you'd be correct on all the answers but would also be 20 minutes late answering them as you'd be too busy googling the answer on your mobile rather than relying on learned knowledge.

So the challenge is, AGAIN (3rd time of asking by the way), did you feel your post about people with Aspergers syndrome was offensive?
Yes or No? No other response will do I'm afraid. Any response to the contrary shows you up for who you really are. Ranthoneous!
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Old 28th June 2019, 09:05   #68
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Just out of interest everyone on this post

Do you find this comment offensive....

Sadly tho - we have governments that listen to 16 year old children with Aspergers Syndrome and set their policies by that influence rather than reality and common sense.
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Old 28th June 2019, 09:09   #69
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Answer the challenge that you posted an offensive and insulting slur against people with Aspergers syndrome. Simple question.
As usual a squirming response. You just can't accept criticism can you?

Seeing as you like using long words try this one. You are ranthoneous. Look it up. And yes I did google it (where most of your "facts based" posts emanate from)
One tings for sure. I'd hate you on my pub quiz team. Yes you'd be correct on all the answers but would also be 20 minutes late answering them as you'd be too busy googling the answer on your mobile rather than relying on learned knowledge.

So the challenge is, AGAIN (3rd time of asking by the way), did you feel your post about people with Aspergers syndrome was offensive?
Yes or No? No other response will do I'm afraid. Any response to the contrary shows you up for who you really are. Ranthoneous!
No - not at all.
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Old 28th June 2019, 09:13   #70
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What a sad person you are. Seems your only pursuit in life is to seek approval through your posts on this person.

ranthoneous - a contentious person who is underknowledged in a field he thinks he is an expert in and will fly into angry rants when his incorrect statements are corrected by those who are actually experts or at least well versed in the field.

saves you looking it up (which you will undoubtedly do!)
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