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Old 11th October 2019, 16:00   #11
Yorkshire GOC
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Originally Posted by DKR View Post
Thank all for your suggestions,


When I returned today, it started @first try - drove home without any issues...


SO:

@Mike:
Do you think it could *not* be the sensor or the wiring?
(I was just about to order a new sensor before I saw your post)


@Yorkshire:
Do you still (after Mike's input) think cam shaft sensor and/or wiring could be the culprit?



@trikey:
I saw a tut on this yesterday somewhere on the net - 4" tubes, not starting the engine (disconnect the cam shaft sensor connector, I think it was, to prevent the engine from starting), but just cranking it for about 10 secs.
However, I consulted an auto workshop today, they said that would not be sufficient - I should use bottles, *and* start the engine...
Do you have any thought on that?




Thanks again from a RoverLoving, but not AutoTech mind
Hi - i defer to Mike's knowledge re the CAM sensor - so back to the fact she started cold - it could be injector leak back so you will need a leak back test kit to confirm or disregard this as the cause. But it could also be a failing crankshaft censor which if faulty stops sending data to the ECM and the engine is then switched off causing a stall - again if faulty they fail at temperature - if you stall/cut out again turn her over and see if the tachygraph needle flickers or not - if it stays still this to me points to a crank sensor problem as no RPM data is being produced for the ECM and the engine cuts out/fails to start.
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Old 11th October 2019, 16:15   #12
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Allright then - evening is at hand...
I'll check on this during the weekend and let you know.


Thanks for all your valuable inputs
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Old 11th October 2019, 17:06   #13
COLVERT
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Allright then - evening is at hand...
I'll check on this during the weekend and let you know.


Thanks for all your valuable inputs
Leak back test.

Be careful of the plastic connectors around the injectors. They are VERY fragile and break easily.---
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Old 12th October 2019, 13:44   #14
Mike Noc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKR View Post
Thank all for your suggestions,


When I returned today, it started @first try - drove home without any issues...


SO:

@Mike:
Do you think it could *not* be the sensor or the wiring?
(I was just about to order a new sensor before I saw your post)

A missing cam sensor signal can only prevent the engine from starting - it can't be the cause of the engine cutting out. If you unplug the cam sensor with the engine running it has no effect at all.

The camshafts are directly connected to the crankshaft via the two timing chains and, as it is a four stroke engine, geared to run at half engine speed.

The ECM knows the position of the crankshaft from the crank sensor, but doesn't know when you start the car whether the number one piston is coming up on the compression or exhaust stroke. That is the information the camshaft sensor supplies, and it only needs to do it once because the ECM then knows to fire the injectors every other crankshaft revolution.

.

Last edited by Mike Noc; 13th October 2019 at 08:01..
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Old 12th October 2019, 21:28   #15
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Fuel shut off solenoid?
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Old 3rd November 2019, 14:26   #16
DKR
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Alright - still havent gotten the car back, but heres the verdict so far acc. to the mechanic (rdy for a strangie?) at the workshop:

Before anything else, the pretest showed:
- faulty starter motor
- odd signal/camshaft
- faulty fuel pre-something pump
- something not right with the glow plugs


...and, before he could tell anything more, he had to change the starter moter, because the existing wouldnt start.
So - after some 900 EUR starter motor change, the following test declared:
NO ERRORS


They took the car for a couple of rides in town with no errores what so ever...


I asked them to do the final 3rd testun.
Still waiting for the result.


Sorry to have kept you waiting for the info - Ill update with the final result when I get there.


Cheers,
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Old 3rd November 2019, 16:26   #17
COLVERT
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WOW. Nine times out of ten it's the starter solenoid, not the starter motor.---Cheap and easy to change.


The glow plugs are not needed to start the engine unless it's really well below zero degrees.

The pump and camshaft signals were irrelevant as the engine is now running OK.


Sorry but you have seemed to paid a lot when more than likely it should have been a little except for maybe the starter motor complete. ( It would be very easy to see if the motor itself was dead rather than the solenoid in a less than 5 minutes inspection. )---
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Old 3rd November 2019, 19:23   #18
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My thoughts excactly!


Even though the salesman said some 15 months ago that those solenoids had just been changed, I actually bought a set on ebay not too long ago - just never got to change them...


I asked the mechanics if the change included a deposit, and apparently, I get the old starter back, so I might split that up and see whats going on in there
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Old 3rd November 2019, 19:46   #19
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Check inside the solenoid first. If you see the contacts burnt away then you have found the problem.

Fit the new set and you'll have a spare.---
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Old 4th November 2019, 08:40   #20
Mike Noc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKR View Post
Alright - still havent gotten the car back, but heres the verdict so far acc. to the mechanic (rdy for a strangie?) at the workshop:

Before anything else, the pretest showed:
- faulty starter motor
- odd signal/camshaft
- faulty fuel pre-something pump
- something not right with the glow plugs


...and, before he could tell anything more, he had to change the starter moter, because the existing wouldnt start.
So - after some 900 EUR starter motor change, the following test declared:
NO ERRORS


They took the car for a couple of rides in town with no errores what so ever...


I asked them to do the final 3rd testun.
Still waiting for the result.


Sorry to have kept you waiting for the info - Ill update with the final result when I get there.


Cheers,

Sorry to sound negative but they haven't sorted the cutting out problem you originally posted about. Could be it has sorted itself (ECM got wet and has now dried out, contaminated fuel that has now gone through the system etc) or of course it might return.


To take your pretest results in order; as mentioned before, the camsensor and also the starter motor won't cause the engine to shut down once started.


The faulty pre-something pump sounds like an LP fuel pressure fault. Now this can cause the engine to shut down if it happens with it running, but it can also be caused by the ignition being turned on and then the engine not started before the LP pumps time out, which is what probably happened when the mechanic plugged his diagnostic kit in to check for faults.

The glow plug fault is a red herring - they pretty much all do that, and again even if the glowplug relay is faulty it won't cause the engine to stall once started.
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