Are EVs really the answer in the future? I do not think so.

[Comfortably Numb]

Originally Posted by bendrick

To be fair these car batteries are providing employment for African children.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cobalt-...investigation/



The environment and electric car mob must be very pleased with themselves.

See this within my earlier post: "At this stage, electricity companies are happy to use these "redundant" batteries to store off peak energy, to balance out the peaks and troughs of demand, while the battery recycling industry experiments with ways to maximise the percentage of materials retrieved, and maximise the efficiency of these operations, but to date, the quantities involved, rather like the manufacturing of EVs themselves, does not make this a low-cost operation, especially in comparison to the 5 X cheaper cost of mining lithium, and some of the other nasty materials involved. Perhaps if we applied our own health and safety regimes to the workers in these mines, and paid them a European wage, recycling would become a more cost-effective alternative.

[Comfortably Numb]

The lifetime of a lithium EV battery is far greater than its equivalent weight in petroleum products. Once that considerable charging infrastructure is in place, the saving on drilling, refining, and transportation of fossil fuels will be considerable. Once lithium batteries are beyond use as static storage, after their useful 150,000+ mile life in an EV, current methods show that they can be as much as 96% recyclable. How much does it cost to run the UK fuel tanker fleet, both marine and road? Thousands of them delivering to petrol stations every day. Electricity flows without trucks. And without the plastics which are a low-cost by-product of our petroleum industry and subsidise it, we will perhaps invest more in the local recycling of the plastics we use and throw away so freely. Most plastics are not that difficult to recycle, it is just too cheap and convenient for manufacturers to use virgin plastic. Perhaps cross subsidising of recycling by taxing virgin plastics would produce a sharper focus on this problem.

[trikey]

Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb

it is just too cheap and convenient for manufacturers to use virgin plastic. Perhaps cross subsidising of recycling by taxing virgin plastics would produce a sharper focus on this problem.

Not at all, using reprocessed plastic is roughly 65% cheaper than using virgin polymers, you will find it is the customers that insist on virgin materials not the processors.

[Comfortably Numb]

Originally Posted by trikey

Not at all, using reprocessed plastic is roughly 65% cheaper than using virgin polymers, you will find it is the customers that insist on virgin materials not the processors.

By customers, do you mean the retailers? I for one, have never been asked if I have a preference. Asking the public might produce a different answer. After all, millions of Londoners (and others) drink water that has been recycled several times! Or perhaps that is why they drink so much of the bottled stuff, although it is no different in content.

[Comfortably Numb]

Originally Posted by trikey

Not at all, using reprocessed plastic is roughly 65% cheaper than using virgin polymers, you will find it is the customers that insist on virgin materials not the processors.

Your figure is only true for waste plastic from manufacture, eg mis-moulds etc,
where the polymer is clean, of a known type, and produced in reasonable quantity for reprocessing. Many plastic packaging manufacturers have their own in-house recycling system, so the "waste" never leaves the factory. It is also economic for mass,easily recognised items, such as LDPE milk bottles and PET drinks bottles, but most post-consumer waste plastics are relatively expensive to clean and sort. Colour coding these would make it far more easily achieved/more economic.

[Rickoshea]

Originally Posted by bl52krz

So you are the one bringing this earth we live on to its inglorious end with all those flights. Tesla’s with over 400,000 miles? Where are they running? America?People who think that the e.v. will become the norm are living in cuckoo land..

Late reply but you can only be against air travel if you are a member of the Climate Change Cult. I am certain it is nonsense. It used to be call it “Manmade Global Warming”. When the climate went 20 years without warming (despite continued increases in the tiny amount of CO2 in the atmosphere) they renamed it “Climate Change” with the implication that it was down to us. So now whenever anything happens whether warmer, colder, drier or wetter than normal then it is Climate Change – well yes but not caused by us!

Even if you are gullible enough to believe this tosh, air travel is addressing the wrong issue. Air travel accounts for 3% of man made CO2. Cement production accounts for 9%, yet you never see Greta and her mad mates picketing B&Q to stop us buying a few bags of the stuff. Air travel is one of the greatest benefit that technology has delivered us and intend to make full use it (off for a tour of the Far East in a week’s time – and another 6 flights!)

Finally if you don’t think EVs are the future, just remember that China will build over a million this year and that is 4 times the volume 4 years ago.

[Rickoshea]

We got our EV because I thought their is no way this old pensioner wants to drive more than 240 in a day so can cope with home charging - so much nicer than a petrol station.

When Tony and Gordon decided it was a good idea to encourage the financially challenged to drive diesels, their were lots of people saying a minisule reduction in the output of that wonderful gas CO2 to replace it is noxious nitrous oxide was utterly mad - and this included the Civil Servants advising him.

However without Gordon Brown we would not have our wonderful FiT payments. Our have now reached £1,800 pa whilst our gas and electricity bills only come to £700 so our energy delivers £1,100 profit!

Finally the mining of Cobalt in the Congo by children is down to the lawlessness of the inhabitants and their utterly corrupt government. The miners such as Glencore get the stuff from huge holes in the ground using huge diggers.

[mileshawk56]

Just a thought, will there be second hand EV's? I suppose there must be. I will hang onto the Claud Butler though when the ZT bites the dust. Im still doubtful about EV's in this country, we cant even repair/maintain roads and that's a good 3000year old technology. And I have clear memories of power cuts and cold houses, workplaces etc, just consider these were in the 1940and50's and think of what will happen in the present day average house with its multitude of electric based paraphernalia! A recent minor power cut found one hospital with a standby generating that failed. We will need to build many,many new power stations- its a hundreds of billions £'s cost and all to be built and on line before 2025. I accept what many of you are saying about potential but unfortunately the powers to be are not as bright as you lot, look at the last 3 and one half years of rubbish. Chris S.

[trikey]

Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb

Your figure is only true for waste plastic from manufacture, eg mis-moulds etc,
where the polymer is clean, of a known type, and produced in reasonable quantity for reprocessing. Many plastic packaging manufacturers have their own in-house recycling system, so the "waste" never leaves the factory. It is also economic for mass,easily recognised items, such as LDPE milk bottles and PET drinks bottles, but most post-consumer waste plastics are relatively expensive to clean and sort. Colour coding these would make it far more easily achieved/more economic.

Polymers are easily recycled, there are various ways of separating the different types of plastic if they are mixed together, you are correct that most processors do recycle their waste as it can be fed back into the process.

As I said in my previous reply, its the customers that do not want to take recycled polymer, by customers I mean the people buying the product from the manufacturer. Over the years I have moulded for Ford, Rover, Jaguar, L'Oreal, Tassimo, and many many more, none of the ones I have mentioned would allow the use of reground polymer in their products even when tests conclude that the items were as strong and durable as the items made from virgin compound.

Joe public in most cases wouldn't care if their coffee pod was made from recyclable plastic, its the purchasing departments of most major companies that wont allow it.

(And as an aside, I had three of my technicians fall ill during the last Month when processing biodegradable polymers) Good for the environment, no so for the guys who mould it)

[Rickoshea]

Originally Posted by mileshawk56

Just a thought, will there be second hand EV's? I suppose there must be. I will hang onto the Claud Butler though when the ZT bites the dust. Im still doubtful about EV's in this country, we cant even repair/maintain roads and that's a good 3000year old technology. And I have clear memories of power cuts and cold houses, workplaces etc, just consider these were in the 1940and50's and think of what will happen in the present day average house with its multitude of electric based paraphernalia! A recent minor power cut found one hospital with a standby generating that failed. We will need to build many,many new power stations- its a hundreds of billions £'s cost and all to be built and on line before 2025. I accept what many of you are saying about potential but unfortunately the powers to be are not as bright as you lot, look at the last 3 and one half years of rubbish. Chris S.

Yes indeed! Son got a secondhand Leaf, used it for 18 months and sold it for more than he paid (in great demand!) Now has an E Golf that he bought from a VW dealer who just wanted to shift it and did not understand the demand for them (an ill educated petrolhead I expect!)