Cashless Society

[ADO282]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

I jumped at using DD's for bills and cards for as many payments as possible, I tend not to carry any cash at all anymore, most of the time.



I use three banks, 2x debit cards, 1x credit cards in my wallet plus all three available on my Iphone.



Yesterday I bought £35's worth diesel, went to pay with my Iphone, but it rejected my default NatWest card, as sometimes happens. No problem, I just flipped it to pay via my TSB card instead.



I long ago learned that it is never good to rely entirely on a single card, in case the banks server fails to respond quick enough or there is some other issue.



I only rarely make purchases now, where they lack a machine. The last regular place to buy, which began taking cards was the local chippy several months ago, after me asking them several times if they took cards yet - then around a month ago, then got rid of the old style machine and invited me to use a new one. It is the size and thickness of small mobile phone, white and takes either contactless or contact with pin payments. The fryer asked if I would let him test it for sending a receipt, as he hadn't tried it yet, which I agreed to. A second later it sent me a text message receipt.

£35 worth of diesel, bag of fish and chips eh?


That will be going into my little red book Harry.


In all seriousness how long before the data harvested from all of these purchases is sold on.....an example an insurer providing life products......hang on this chap has fish and chips each Friday, or the workmate run to the pie shop.......hang on he also has bought 20 pies this week, not a good risk.


You are happy to lay your spending habits out for all to see? well I'm not, not at all.


The only people gaining an advantage when it comes to contactless payments are the banks themselves, rubbing their hands in glee at the current situation.

[baxlin]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

I use three banks, 2x debit cards, 1x credit cards in my wallet plus all three available on my Iphone.


I long ago learned that it is never good to rely entirely on a single card, in case the banks server fails to respond quick enough or there is some other issue.

I agree, Harry, and I don’t just have the one. The one I referred to is an M&S credit card, which we both have, and is our main one, to get the loyalty points (used alongside the Tesco club card to win twice). But I use a different CC abroad - one that doesn’t charge when used in mainland Europe - and another, with a low credit limit, which I use for online purchases.

I also have one which I use only very occasionally, just to keep it valid, and they are all paid off each month, although I know this doesn’t help my credit score. At my age and likelihood of needing credit, that doesn’t matter.

And yes, I use more than one bank’s current account, complying with their minimum requirements in order to receive any perk, like interest or free travel insurance.

Over the years, banks etc have shown no loyalty to customers, why should we remain brand loyal?

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by ADO282

You are happy to lay your spending habits out for all to see? well I'm not, not at all.

For me, the advantages of cashless far out weigh the disadvantages.



I will not use social media because of the tracking by all, only certain companies have access to my spend data.

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by baxlin

I also have one which I use only very occasionally, just to keep it valid, and they are all paid off each month, although I know this doesn’t help my credit score. At my age and likelihood of needing credit, that doesn’t matter.

I never have/need for credit and my credit card is automatically paid off each month on time. I did always think that having lots of credit and handling it well, improved your credit rating, but my credit rating, despite no credit is about as good as it gets - top rating.

[reworht]

We've just installed a "SumUp" card payment system at my Club.The theory is that by using a contactless payments system, you cut down on the virus transmission risk reputedly associated with multi-handling of actual cash. As one of the Club's members who takes some responsibility for pricing and profitability, it is worth pointing out the cost to a business of operating such a system. On a typical pint of beer at £3.50, the normal profit, by the time we've paid VAT and our supplier for the actual booze itself, works out at £1.68 - that's with a cash payment. When paid for via a card machine, we have to pay 1.69% of the total price of £3.50 to the card company - that's 6p, reducing our profit margin to £1.62. Not a lot I hear you say - but if 50% of our members decided to pay by card, on a typical monthly sales of 2,800 pints, that tots up to £84. Not a lot I hear you say again, but over 12 months that adds up to an additional cost/reduction in our profits of just over a £1,000 (and I haven't even included the same set of figures for spirits and soft drink sales). That isn't something we can just absorb - it can only mean we'll need to increase our bar prices. I think what I'm trying to say is that many businesses will, like us, not be able to absorb the costs of card payments (and some of the bank operated systems cost considerably more than 1.69% PLUS a monthly fee). Increased card use = increased prices for many smaller businesses who operate on tight margins.
Incidentally, I have no axe to grind re. virus transmission through use of bank notes etc. - so I wouldn't like this post to degenerate into a debate about the ayes or nays. I'll keep my thoughts to myself and hope any posters will do the same - thanks

[ADO282]

Originally Posted by reworht

We've just installed a "SumUp" card payment system at my Club.The theory is that by using a contactless payments system, you cut down on the virus transmission risk reputedly associated with multi-handling of actual cash. As one of the Club's members who takes some responsibility for pricing and profitability, it is worth pointing out the cost to a business of operating such a system. On a typical pint of beer at £3.50, the normal profit, by the time we've paid VAT and our supplier for the actual booze itself, works out at £1.67 - that's with a cash payment. When paid for via a card machine, we have to pay 1.69% of the total price of £3.50 to the card company - that's 6p, reducing our profit margin to £1.62. Not a lot I hear you say - but if 50% of our members decided to pay by card, on a typical monthly sales of 2,800 pints, that tots up to £84. Not a lot I hear you say again, but over 12 months that adds up to an additional cost/reduction in our profits of just over a £1,000 (and I haven't even included the same set of figures for spirits and soft drink sales). That isn't some thing we can just absorb - it can only mean we'll need to increase our bar prices. I think what I'm trying to say is that many businesses will, like us, not be able to absorb the costs of card payments (and some of the bank operated systems cost considerably more than 1.69% PLUS a monthly fee). Increased card use = increased prices for many smaller businesses who operate on tight margins.
Incidentally, I have no axe to grind re. virus transmission through use of bank notes etc. - so I wouldn't like this post to degenerate into a debate about the ayes or nays. I'll keep my thoughts to myself and hope any posters will do the same - thanks

Does your club have a one arm bandit, a pool table, or a jukebox Rod?


I'm curious as if there are items such as these, how do they figure in a cashless scenario?


Just a thought.............




Chris

[reworht]

Originally Posted by ADO282

Does your club have a one arm bandit, a pool table, or a jukebox Rod?


I'm curious as if there are items such as these, how do they figure in a cashless scenario?


Just a thought.............

Chris

We have 1 one arm bandit and two snooker tables Chris. You've raised an interesting point as both of the facilities operate on cash - the snooker clocks using £1 and 20p coins, whereas the bandit adds 50p, £2 coins and 10p pieces to the input. I suppose it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility to have a token system whereby you "buy" the appropriate tokens from behind the bar. Obviously, if you then pay for your tokens via the card machine, we cop for another increased cost. As it happens, the bandit has already started slowly down the route of cashless - wins of a certain value and above (can't remember how much) are paid out by voucher, which you exchange for cash at the bar, rather than a huge pile of £ coins cascading into the winnings tray. At the moment, the bandit is not in use - when we came to do a risk assessment on it, we reckoned it was nigh on impossible.

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by reworht

I think what I'm trying to say is that many businesses will, like us, not be able to absorb the costs of card payments (and some of the bank operated systems cost considerably more than 1.69% PLUS a monthly fee). Increased card use = increased prices for many smaller businesses who operate on tight margins.

The other side of the coin is, fewer mistakes from handling cash, much easier accounting and much lower risk of being robbed of cash, so insurance costs are lower.

[ADO282]

Originally Posted by reworht

We have 1 one arm bandit and two snooker tables Chris. You've raised an interesting point as both of the facilities operate on cash - the snooker clocks using £1 and 20p coins, whereas the bandit adds 50p, £2 coins and 10p pieces to the input. I suppose it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility to have a token system whereby you "buy" the appropriate tokens from behind the bar. Obviously, if you then pay for your tokens via the card machine, we cop for another increased cost. As it happens, the bandit has already started slowly down the route of cashless - wins of a certain value and above (can't remember how much) are paid out by voucher, which you exchange for cash at the bar, rather than a huge pile of £ coins cascading into the winnings tray. At the moment, the bandit is not in use - when we came to do a risk assessment on it, we reckoned it was nigh on impossible.

That sounds like a B3a machine Rod, rather than a B4, the former prints out tickets for a win, whereas the latter pays out cash.


A hangover from the days of amusement machine duty, the B4 type machines are subject to MGD (machine gaming duty) whereas the B3 is subject to VAT only.


I wrote up a risk assessment for a friend a couple of weeks ago for just such machine types, and the subjective advice from BACTA (British Amusement Catering Trade Association) along with HSE recommendation suggest usage of such machines is permissible with a seated player with a simple pack of antibacterial wipes provided for the player to clean the machine operating surfaces if they so wish.


I would reassess the current treatment of the best member of the club

[reworht]

Originally Posted by ADO282

That sounds like a B3a machine Rod, rather than a B4, the former prints out tickets for a win, whereas the latter pays out cash.


A hangover from the days of amusement machine duty, the B4 type machines are subject to MGD (machine gaming duty) whereas the B3 is subject to VAT only.


I wrote up a risk assessment for a friend a couple of weeks ago for just such machine types, and the subjective advice from BACTA (British Amusement Catering Trade Association) along with HSE recommendation suggest usage of such machines is permissible with a seated player with a simple pack of antibacterial wipes provided for the player to clean the machine operating surfaces if they so wish.


I would reassess the current treatment of the best member of the club

Part of the problem with ours was physical siting - where it stands at the moment means people entering the Club have to walk quite close to it, and that problem would be worse if the punter was seated. Re-siting would be difficult thanks to internal walls and power sockets - it would be out of sight of the bar staff, making it impossible for them to monitor whether players are complying.
As it happens, the bandit is no longer a great earner for us - long gone are the days when we could take £20,000 NETT profit from two machines in a year