Front hub nuts - torque question

[Blink]

Originally Posted by macafee2

You are right and I have bought a number of tools for just 1 job only to use them again and again over the years. You never know what will happen and so buying the correct tool now may not in the long term be a waste.
Think of all the people you can help out

macafee2

That's true. But if you haven't got the money, something has to give way.

Originally Posted by Steven211

Milwaukee 1500 nm impact gun will make mince meet of these nuts, I've had mine for 4 years and love it.

Which model number is it? https://uk.milwaukeetool.eu/cordless...ct-wrenches-1/

The only 1500Nm one I can find is this but it's a 1/4" drive. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Milwaukee-M.../dp/B00I3POGXQ

Originally Posted by COLVERT

How about one of these ??

Brüder Mannesmann Torque Wrench Spanner Reversible Rotation Metal 28-

As long as your King Dick is big enough it will do what you want it to do.

If you need it longer then slide a piece of tube over it which will increase its length and pulling power.---

Mannesmann 28 to how many Nm?

The King Dick won't work because I don't have a space saver wheel.

Originally Posted by SD1too

You're right, good tools are expensive but they'll last your lifetime.

Unlikely to be taken off again? Are you sure? I've been proved wrong after making that assumption. And for just two nuts? Again, there will be other jobs for which you'll be glad you've got a high capacity 3/4 in. drive torque wrench.

Finally, compare the cost of the best tool with garage labour charges for the same job. Now is it "big bucks"?

Edit: Here you go, this is the best deal I could find: £214 including vat, free delivery.

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/...e-Wrench-3-4In

A beautiful tool and with UK customer service too. I have one from the same range.

Simon

No I'm not sure they won't have to come off again.

£214 is less than I thought it would be but none of my sockets are 3/4". I could buy a 3/4" 32mm just for the hub nuts but I'd have to resort to a 3/4-1/2" reducer for every other size from then on - or buy a full set of 3/4" sockets. I don't like reducers so the price shoots up once again.

Assuming I've spotted them all, a quick trawl through Rave shows these are the highest torques on a 75, in descending order:

1) Front drive shaft nut 350Nm
2) Rear hub nut 210Nm
3) Crankshaft pulley 205Nm
4) Rear damper to trailing arm bolt 155Nm
5) Front lower arm bush housing to subframe bolts 150Nm
6) Road wheel bolts 125Nm

No1 is the only one my existing torque wrenches can't cope with. If I had the money I'd buy the 3/4" Norbar and a full set of sockets. To do that now though would mean ditching the sandblasting*, which would be a mistake since the whole point of all this is to kill rust.

* Or the new nuts & bolts order, which hasn't gone to Rimmers yet.

[Blink]

Originally Posted by Arctic

600mm will move them easy even easier if you put a tube on it as well, i have never had any trouble removing one of these, i usually never bother un-staking them either as i always use a new nut.

Where did you get that tube from Steve?

The only steel tube I've got is the handle off a 3-ton trolley jack - I don't think it'll cope with 350Nm though, the force will probably open the end out and render it useless.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by Blink

I could buy a 3/4" 32mm just for the hub nuts but I'd have to resort to a 3/4-1/2" reducer for every other size from then on ...

Sorry Simon, I don't understand your point about the reducer. You say that your existing torque wrenches are suitable for everything except the 350Nm hub nut. So buy the Norbar tool and a 3/4 in. 32mm socket and you're sorted!
I can't see the need for a reducer or a full set of 3/4 in. drive sockets.

Simon

[Blink]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Sorry Simon, I don't understand your point about the reducer. You say that your existing torque wrenches are suitable for everything except the 350Nm hub nut. So buy the Norbar tool and a 3/4 in. 32mm socket and you're sorted!
I can't see the need for a reducer or a full set of 3/4 in. drive sockets.

Simon

I meant if I bought the 3/4" Norbar plus a 3/4" 32mm socket, I could use them to torque the hub nuts to 350Nm, but then the Norbar is useless for everything else.
Price = £214 plus say £16 for the 32mm socket = £230 just to torque two nuts.

The alternatives are either: a) buy a reducer to use my existing 1/2" sockets on the Norbar, or b) buy a full set of 3/4" sockets and use those with the Norbar.
Price - a) is cheaper than b) but both would enable the Norbar to be used on a whole range of nut sizes.

[Blink]

Idea for undoing the hub nuts.

NB. The car is on blocks.

A) Jack the front end up so it's an inch off the front blocks.
B) Place a 12" breaker bar with 32mm socket on one hub nut.
C) Chock the handle end of the bar with a sleeper (with bar almost horizontal)
D) Put something smooth between the sleeper and the handle (e.g. a thin sheet of plastic just to aid sliding).
E) Pray.
F) Let the jack down suddenly.



Obviously I'd need to jam the brakes on somehow since I can't stand on the pedal and let the jack down at the same time.

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Be careful with personal criticism Brian, you know where it might lead.

Is that thinly veiled threat Simon?, if so it's not impressive, we all know who your friend is

(By the way, it's "whose".)

I've corrected that for you, I should have known you were a specialist in homophones

To continue with the technical subject being discussed:

I agree with that. I have never said otherwise. I always "operate with caution" and would never use a torque wrench to slacken a fastener beyond its maximum torque and neither have I advocated it.

You should have clarified that Simon, however you chose not too, dangerous when others may take what you say as correct.

My point is that your original statement was that under no circumstances should a torque wrench be used for slackening:

On the contrary Norbar informs us that a torque wrench can be used for slackening.

Norbar are making references to threaded fasteners in good condition, not ones that have spent a lifetime in adverse conditions, I on the other hand was referring to the latter, especially given the context of the original question posed in the thread.........do you know how to calculate the breakout torque required to undo a rusted fastener Simon? this is quite important so the maximum limits of your tool are not exceeded.

Thank you Brian for providing me with the opportunity to put the record straight on this often misunderstood subject.

You have done nothing of the sort Simon, you have misinterpreted a manufacturers text, and put your own spin on a method that would be highly likely to result in tool damage



Simon you have exceeded my expectations of you once more, but then again they were not particularly high in the first instance............

[Mike Noc]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Hi Mike,

You'll see from Norbar's document, to which I linked, that reversible torque wrenches can be used for left-hand threaded fasteners but not exclusively so (as Brian thought).

Simon

Personally I never use a torque wrench for undoing anything, it just isn't good engineering practice. And funnily enough I can easily tighten a left hand threaded fastener using a right handed torque wrench too - just wondered if you had a method for doing so.

Originally Posted by Blink

I meant if I bought the 3/4" Norbar plus a 3/4" 32mm socket, I could use them to torque the hub nuts to 350Nm, but then the Norbar is useless for everything else.
Price = £214 plus say £16 for the 32mm socket = £230 just to torque two nuts.

The alternatives are either: a) buy a reducer to use my existing 1/2" sockets on the Norbar, or b) buy a full set of 3/4" sockets and use those with the Norbar.
Price - a) is cheaper than b) but both would enable the Norbar to be used on a whole range of nut sizes.

I would be wary of using reducers and smaller drives as you risk breaking them if the nut is super tight. The last thing you want is for something to let go when you have all your weight on it. I bought my 3/4 drive torque wrench second hand on ebay - less than £30.






.

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by Blink

I meant if I bought the 3/4" Norbar plus a 3/4" 32mm socket, I could use them to torque the hub nuts to 350Nm, but then the Norbar is useless for everything else.
Price = £214 plus say £16 for the 32mm socket = £230 just to torque two nuts.

The alternatives are either: a) buy a reducer to use my existing 1/2" sockets on the Norbar, or b) buy a full set of 3/4" sockets and use those with the Norbar.
Price - a) is cheaper than b) but both would enable the Norbar to be used on a whole range of nut sizes.

Use the 3/4"--32 mm socket to get the nut reasonably tight.

Then get a garage to tighten it. It would take them all of 5 seconds and cost very little.---

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by Blink

Where did you get that tube from Steve?

The only steel tube I've got is the handle off a 3-ton trolley jack - I don't think it'll cope with 350Nm though, the force will probably open the end out and render it useless.

Any scrap metal yard will sell you a piece of tube. ( old scaffold tube. ) Will cost peanuts as they sell by weight.--

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by Blink

Idea for undoing the hub nuts.

NB. The car is on blocks.

A) Jack the front end up so it's an inch off the front blocks.
B) Place a 12" breaker bar with 32mm socket on one hub nut.
C) Chock the handle end of the bar with a sleeper (with bar almost horizontal)
D) Put something smooth between the sleeper and the handle (e.g. a thin sheet of plastic just to aid sliding).
E) Pray.
F) Let the jack down suddenly.



Obviously I'd need to jam the brakes on somehow since I can't stand on the pedal and let the jack down at the same time.

That sounds fraught with danger, and unnecessarily complex Simon.

As an alternative to the whole scheme place a trolley jack under the bottom ball joint, to provide reaction to your action, employ an assistant to press the brake pedal, then undo the nut either with a suitable breaker bar and socket, or the King Dick spanner I linked to earlier in the thread.

There is no flex or wind up in that particular spanner, and you can stand on the end using the ball of your foot.

When it comes to fastening the new nut, this looks to be a reasonable candidate for the job LINK
it seems rather pointless to make the investment in a brand new tool you will use a handful of times, and a socket HERE

The socket is a standard one, as you will find most 3/4" drive impact sockets have a wall thickness that makes it impossible to use for this job

Brian