Not So Smart Motorways

[Snetty]

Originally Posted by wraymond

Not sure if it was ever actually 'the law' but overtaking on the left used to be a cardinal sin. Now, it happens regularly and often by HGV's. Perhaps the practice is due to impatience but some people think they are entitled to a brick wall.

With respect,if drivers returned to lane 1 when an overtaking move has been completed overtaking on the left wouldn't be an issue.
HGV's speedometers are calibrated giving the impression of speeding to a car driver especially in roadworks where the speed limits are typically 50 moh or less.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Mercury RV

The reason you will see many lorries in a line one behind the other, is like our recovery trucks, they are fitted with speed limiters, this limits the truck to 56MPH + or - 2MPH, as such spare a thought for those of us trying to also make progress along the road before you overtake and then pull in in front, just clearing the front of the truck. One of our recovery trucks that transports large American Motorhomes has 16 gears (4 gears which splits 4 times) this means you may have to change down once, think of this in a truck, its not just a quick change. I am not saying ALL truck drivers are that professional, but then this applies to car drivers as well.

The issue is the Smart Motorway, do you REALLY think it is that smart? I personally think it is a serious incident waiting to happen, as has been proved now many times, ask the man serving the prison sentence for his alleged crime. I know you can travel on a de-restricted dual carriageway at 70MPH, however, normally they do not have barriers prohibiting you from pulling off the actual road, and really I am expecting more things on a normal road than I am on a Motorway.


......

So how do we explain the fact that lorries are constantly causing obstructions on multi-lane roads by attempting to overtake each other whilst travelling at materially the same speed as the other?

I don't think we can get away from the fact that, whilst most lorry drivers have exceptional skills, the majority tend to be reckless in relation to driving safely and with due respect for other road traffic.

Rather than automation, the best we can do with lorries is to link them up and have a single driver. Then put them on their own road away from other traffic. One could even give the ensemble of engine and trailers it's own name - a train perhaps!

[simon.jane]

Originally Posted by macafee2

cant recall which motorway but the signs say "congestion use hard shoulder", next sign says "use hard shoulder for next exit only". Having moved from lane one to hard shoulder I now have to move back. This I consider dangerous, could be m42 or m1

macaffe2

Its on the m1 as well by luton it all a big problem no one pays any notice of them. I am by the m25 and l have see drivers in lanes that have been closed still doing 50+mph them just don't give a rats bum.

[Snetty]

Originally Posted by mss

So how do we explain the fact that lorries are constantly causing obstructions on multi-lane roads by attempting to overtake each other whilst travelling at materially the same speed as the other?


I don't think we can get away from the fact that, whilst most lorry drivers have exceptional skills, the majority tend to be reckless in relation to driving safely and with due respect for other road traffic.

Rather than automation, the best we can do with lorries is to link them up and have a single driver. Then put them on their own road away from other traffic. One could even give the ensemble of engine and trailers it's own name - a train perhaps!

The performance of a fully freighted 44 tonne truck is vastly different to an empty one so there are going to be instances where overtaking is necessary.
Why not get rid of trucks altogether, of course the railways can deliver to all the factories and supermarkets etc.

[Borg Warner]

Originally Posted by Snetty

The performance of a fully freighted 44 tonne truck is vastly different to an empty one so there are going to be instances where overtaking is necessary.
Why not get rid of trucks altogether, of course the railways can deliver to all the factories and supermarkets etc.

The truck is not necessarily the problem. It's the bio-mechanical device in the cab watching his dvd, cooking his breakfast, on his phone etc.. A section of the A14 at Leicester specifically prohibits vehicles in excess of 7.5T from the right hand lane, lost count the number if times I've been stuck behind such vehicles as the ignore the sign. I've also lost count the number of times I've been tailgatted by them as well as prevented from getting back in to the right lane for an exit.

[HarryM1BYT]

Yesterday lunch I was on the A168, between Thirsk and the A1, towing the caravan back home. I got stuck in a jam, where a truck had obviously hit 'something' and the 'something' had burst into flames.



Short stopping distances scare the h*ll out of me, but I can fully understand why they have to do it - there is only so much space on the road, the spacing has to be tight, to get the number of vehicles past a certain point. The faster they go and the tighter the spacing, the more vehicles per hour are able to pass a certain point.



Lorries do have to be able to overtake, despite the time it might take them. The fully laden ones will slow up on the long hills, the less heavily loaded then must overtake.


The UK's population is very densely packed, there is not much room to expand roads, so the ones we do have are tightly packed. Public transport is nowhere as good as it needs to be, so people use their cars. Rail is a slow and expensive means to get items from one point to another, so bulk transport goes on the road. Road took goods away from rail, for these very reasons in the middle of the last century - hence the enforced closure of so many lines and Beeching.


We used to have a 'Red Star' rail parcels system, dropped and collected from rail - but even that stopped decades ago as unviable.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Snetty

The performance of a fully freighted 44 tonne truck is vastly different to an empty one so there are going to be instances where overtaking is necessary.
.................

The problem is that in reality they actually demonstrate how similar the performance is between the truck attempting to overtake and the ones being overtaken by the number of miles consumed by the maneuver thus holding up traffic behind them.

[wraymond]

The problem with a lot of lorries is just that, lots of 'em. The elephant race on an incline sees two or even three abreast with none easing off to pull in behind the one to his left. All limited to approx. 56 in a 70 means a delay to all those following. It also means they get to the top all at the same time anyway! Not much in the real world I know but you'd think that at least one would submit to road sense. After all most of the drivers have training far beyond basic licence standard.

[breakfastinsmethwick]

Originally Posted by Mercury RV

Just a thought, with all the lanes on a Motorway, why is it I can make clear progress by using the inside lane that no one else wants to use? I make a habit of overtaking and then moving to the inside lane again, the lane that no one seems to want to use. It may be that people still call it the slow lane, and only wimps use the slow lane? There is no such thing as the slow lane, the inside lane and then all the others are overtaking lanes, please everyone, overtake and then pull back in, more traffic could use the road then and much safer as well. We also operate a breakdown truck, and when I drive this sometimes I am amazed how many car drivers just sit in lanes, for miles, and the only time they move out of that lane is when they turn off!!

Couldnt agree more.

I join the M6 at J4 north around 15:30 most days. Generally the hard shoulder is open to traffic at that time and theres a 60 limit. I always take lane -1 (hard shoulder) and only a fraction of other vehilcles do. Most lorries stay in (real) lane 1. I set cruise to the gantry speed limt but then start to creep up the inside of wagons. I generally hold back from undertaking but usually a sprinter will come up behind and intimidate me to undertake. You just cant win.

[AndyN01]

Hey, a whole can of worms .

If ALL road users maintained a safe stopping distance I wonder how that might affect the collision rate?

I'm not trying to incite a riot from our trucker friends on here, I'm trying to understand the reasons, but what is the reason a vast number of you can't maintain a safe stopping distance?

I don't accept the "we're speed limited" argument. What's the difference between travelling at 56ish mph a cars length behind another vehicle and 56ish mph several hundred metres behind another vehicle? The choice of speed/distance is surely down to the driver? If that means you can't safely stop then erm.....back off. If that adds some journey time then so be it.

As we have just seen perhaps the driver could choose to stay far too close resulting in them killing someone and ending up in prison.

Also, what is the reason that a truck journey (at 56ish mph) is more "important" (or whatever the reason) than any other road users such that the drivers are happy to perform an overtake which results in a vast tailback of other road users who can quite legally travel much faster?

I don't understand the thought process that chooses to perform an overtake that effectively blocks the road, frustrating a large number of other drivers with their own "important" journeys.

I look forward to being educated.

Thanks.

Andy.