MGZT190 - Brakes - Well I didn't know that !!!

Greeners · 21st November 2016, 21:52

I think it's been well documented that the Front discs on the 190 are bigger then the rest of the range, but I didn't know the brake master cylinder was different.....I assumed it was one across all variants

From Rimmers

SJC100410
All R75 Saloons
MGZT & ZTT Diesel only
All R75 Tourers Except 2500cc

SJC000080
MGZT & ZTT Except Diesel
R75 Tourers 2500cc only
All V8's

I've no idea what the difference is, but there does appear to be one

Walter · 21st November 2016, 21:58

Do you know what the difference is, say on the 190 MG ZT, perhaps bigger bore pipes needed ? So if you upgrade to the bigger 190 brake set up with discs and calipers yo might need bigger (different ) master cylinder . ?

Dansrockin · 22nd November 2016, 09:34

going on that info, its not just 190s that have it, its all zt/ztt apart from cdti ones, plus v8s and 2.5 75 tourers.
maybe its more to do with the weight of the cars affecting the braking performance, so needing a stronger master cylinder?

TomRS · 22nd November 2016, 11:27

A bigger master is usually required when more brake pistons are introduced, the only thing i can assume on the diesel is to do with the vaccum pump arrangement.
(Brake vaccum is made up differently on a diesel as these never enter negative values i.e always in boost)

But its probably just to cope with the bigger pistons in the 190 calipers

AGAs · 22nd November 2016, 18:05

This is something that many owners who upgrade to 190 disks do not realise. The net result being that sooner or later their original master will fail.

billcoleman · 22nd November 2016, 21:18

I think that you will find that the pistons and seal in the callipers are all the same. Hence the fluid displacement is the same. The only reason that the 190 callipers are more powerful is due to the larger diameter discs.

clf · 22nd November 2016, 21:51

you will need the carriers also. But they are apparently a straight fit. (I have a set in the shed waiting until I need new pads or discs up front to fit. Also new flexi pipes are suggested as they are not the same, however some people have reused their originals, and have had no issues. (I plan to fit new ones also when the time comes though - as an age issue rather than necessity)

neilll · 22nd November 2016, 23:04

This is something "John H"(The Cardinal) mentioned a while ago about different master cylinders when uprating brake calipers, he`s not as daft as he looks

Neil

billcoleman · 23rd November 2016, 06:21

I upgraded to 190 front brakes some time ago and although they made an improvement, the brakes on this car (that I have owned from new) have never been really sharp like almost every other car I have driven. It's almost like there's not enough servo assistance.

JoeMc · 23rd November 2016, 09:04

IMO to get the best out of the brakes, braided brake lines are needed and more aggressive pads (EBC Redstuff or Yellowstuff will be more than sufficient)!

My previous ZT-T 190 a good few years back had HEL braided lines all round, Bremtech grooved front discs, rear blank discs and EBC Redstuff pads all round... It stopped on a penny and never faded

The Mtec grooved discs that are now available for around £110 are superb and I've used them on a few cars including my previous BMW E38 728i and 740i and come the New Year, I'll uprate my brakes again to those with EBC Yellowstuff pads and HEL lines

Currently I'm using Delphi blank discs and Mintex pads up front and Mintext blank discs with Mintex pads on the rear, standard brake lines and the car stops really well

21st November 2016, 21:52	#1
Greeners Moderator MG-ZTT Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 19,798 Thanks: 161 Thanked 1,249 Times in 1,036 Posts	MGZT190 - Brakes - Well I didn't know that !!! I think it's been well documented that the Front discs on the 190 are bigger then the rest of the range, but I didn't know the brake master cylinder was different.....I assumed it was one across all variants From Rimmers SJC100410 All R75 Saloons MGZT & ZTT Diesel only All R75 Tourers Except 2500cc SJC000080 MGZT & ZTT Except Diesel R75 Tourers 2500cc only All V8's I've no idea what the difference is, but there does appear to be one __________________ *David* Impecunity is the mother of ingenuity Useful how to's for common problems Car Of The Month Jan 2014 [SatNav Power Down] [Coolant Level] [SatNav Repair] [Diesel Non Starting] [Paint Codes] [Rear Light Seals] [Reversing Light Switch] [Bleeding Brakes][Sunroof Drain] [Early ZT's][Instrument Pack Diagnostics][ATC Diagnostics]

21st November 2016, 21:58	#2
Walter Posted a thing or two zebadee Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 1,481 Thanks: 135 Thanked 207 Times in 192 Posts	Difference ? Do you know what the difference is, say on the 190 MG ZT, perhaps bigger bore pipes needed ? So if you upgrade to the bigger 190 brake set up with discs and calipers yo might need bigger (different ) master cylinder . ? Last edited by Walter; 21st November 2016 at 22:01..

22nd November 2016, 11:27	#4
TomRS Posted a thing or two Mk1 ZT 190 - Mk2 ZS 180 - Mercedes E63 AMG S - Ford Ranger Hawk Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Middlesbrough Posts: 1,456 Thanks: 123 Thanked 409 Times in 281 Posts	A bigger master is usually required when more brake pistons are introduced, the only thing i can assume on the diesel is to do with the vaccum pump arrangement. (Brake vaccum is made up differently on a diesel as these never enter negative values i.e always in boost) But its probably just to cope with the bigger pistons in the 190 calipers __________________ http://i66.tinypic.com/5cd6xj.jpg

22nd November 2016, 18:05	#5
AGAs Regular poster ZT Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Sheffield Posts: 82 Thanks: 26 Thanked 29 Times in 13 Posts	This is something that many owners who upgrade to 190 disks do not realise. The net result being that sooner or later their original master will fail. __________________ 'I'm Brian and so is my wife!'

22nd November 2016, 21:51	#7
clf This is my second home MG ZT CDTi Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: carrick Posts: 7,859 Thanks: 3,494 Thanked 2,657 Times in 1,973 Posts	you will need the carriers also. But they are apparently a straight fit. (I have a set in the shed waiting until I need new pads or discs up front to fit. Also new flexi pipes are suggested as they are not the same, however some people have reused their originals, and have had no issues. (I plan to fit new ones also when the time comes though - as an age issue rather than necessity) __________________ It is not gloss primer .............. it is duct tape silver!

22nd November 2016, 09:34	#3
Dansrockin Posted a thing or two MG ZT number 1 of 25 celestial!! Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Banbury Posts: 1,967 Thanks: 208 Thanked 242 Times in 166 Posts	going on that info, its not just 190s that have it, its all zt/ztt apart from cdti ones, plus v8s and 2.5 75 tourers. maybe its more to do with the weight of the cars affecting the braking performance, so needing a stronger master cylinder?

22nd November 2016, 21:18	#6
billcoleman Gets stuck in MGZT-T Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 578 Thanks: 7 Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts	I think that you will find that the pistons and seal in the callipers are all the same. Hence the fluid displacement is the same. The only reason that the 190 callipers are more powerful is due to the larger diameter discs.

22nd November 2016, 23:04	#8
neilll Gets stuck in MG ZT,MG ZT-T Join Date: May 2008 Location: St. Helens Posts: 961 Thanks: 211 Thanked 235 Times in 158 Posts	This is something "John H"(The Cardinal) mentioned a while ago about different master cylinders when uprating brake calipers, he`s not as daft as he looks Neil

23rd November 2016, 06:21	#9
billcoleman Gets stuck in MGZT-T Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 578 Thanks: 7 Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts	I upgraded to 190 front brakes some time ago and although they made an improvement, the brakes on this car (that I have owned from new) have never been really sharp like almost every other car I have driven. It's almost like there's not enough servo assistance.

23rd November 2016, 09:04	#10
JoeMc Loves to post MG ZT V6 / BMW E60 M5 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Bamber Bridge Posts: 372 Thanks: 34 Thanked 62 Times in 51 Posts	IMO to get the best out of the brakes, braided brake lines are needed and more aggressive pads (EBC Redstuff or Yellowstuff will be more than sufficient)! My previous ZT-T 190 a good few years back had HEL braided lines all round, Bremtech grooved front discs, rear blank discs and EBC Redstuff pads all round... It stopped on a penny and never faded The Mtec grooved discs that are now available for around £110 are superb and I've used them on a few cars including my previous BMW E38 728i and 740i and come the New Year, I'll uprate my brakes again to those with EBC Yellowstuff pads and HEL lines Currently I'm using Delphi blank discs and Mintex pads up front and Mintext blank discs with Mintex pads on the rear, standard brake lines and the car stops really well