Help with refitting front suspension arm - Page 2

SD1too · 16th September 2021, 14:51

Hello Jim,

Have you refitted the bush housing in exactly the right position? Did you measure the distance from the rear end of the housing to the end of the original suspension arm and transfer it to the new arm?
There's a horizontal line cast into the end of the arm which should be parallel to the base of the bush housing. This confirms the correct rotational position.

If you're still stuck, then extract the ARB saddle clamp bolts and move the bar forwards to make the job much easier. I recommend this anyway because the bush bolts' specified torque is 150 Nm.

This job is not easy by any means so your frustration is normal. As you say, leave it now until tomorrow. A new dawn has got me out of trouble many times!

Simon

roverbarmy · 16th September 2021, 16:55

The arm is under a part rotation in situ so the bracket needs to be twisted slightly to line up the bolts. I used mole grips gripped and locked on the webs of the bracket to apply the bit of twist. Mole grips in one hand and bolt in the other, turn bolt anti clock until aligned then feel it in. Don't spanner it until it's well started.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

macafee2 · 16th September 2021, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD1too

Hi Jim,

I did this job in the spring so perhaps I can help and you'll be pleased to know that the subframe does not need to be "removed" or lowered.

The problem is, as you've found out, access to the rear bush bolts. The official method, which I found works perfectly, is to remove the anti-roll bar saddle clamp bolts. The clamp can then be lifted off and the bar moved forwards giving you full access to that pesky front bolt. You will then be able to start the bolts off by hand in five seconds and even fit a hexagon socket and torque wrench so that these important suspension bolts can be tightened properly to the specified value.

The anti-roll bar saddle clamp bolts are difficult to see. You'll need some slim socketry and some flexible attachments. They're not particularly tight (25Nm I think) but they might be rusty.

Start the rear bush bolts with the outer balljoint disconnected. There's no need to take off the hub.

Simon

Thanks Simon, I dont recall anyone saying to remove the anti roll bar clamps before and I'd always wondered about torquing the bolts.

macafee2

COLVERT · 16th September 2021, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by trikey

No subframe or anti roll bar removal required.

Jack up the front wheel, this will line op the flange on the new bush, the bolts will go in easily then.

That's exactly how this 84 years old codger did mine.---

SD1too · 16th September 2021, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverbarmy

The arm is under a part rotation in situ so the bracket needs to be twisted slightly to line up the bolts.

I have to say that wasn't my experience Mike. I fitted my new X-Part bush housing to the original arm off the car (recommended). Both have hexagonal fittings so can only be assembled in one way and I didn't have to rotate anything to locate the housing bolts.

Simon

Cantray · 17th September 2021, 12:45

Thanks to all who have replied particularly to Simon for the well established advice to sleep on it.

The bush is aligned correctly on the arm. The threads in the arm and on the bolts are perfect they thread easily. The difficulty is in aligning the bush holder to allow the bolts to fall correctly into the subframe socket. With the hub on and the outer balljoint disconnected I can almost get there, but there is about 10 degrees off vertical that I can't correct with the hub in place because the hub restricts movement of the outer wishbone. I can correct this with an f clamp on the bush holder but cannot even then get the bolts to thread. With the outer balljoint in place and jacking up the hub to take weight of the car things are worse because there is no movement left in the wishbone - attempt to correct the 10 degrees broke my clamp! I realise this is a problem that others have not seen or have solved with one of the methods above but they are not working for me. So I am going to take the hub off the strut to give more room to adjust the wishbone and align the bush holder correctly. Reluctant to drop the subframe unless no other way.

I imagine this would be easier with car on ramps and 2 strong mechanics but can't help cursing the engineer who thought this up. Have worked on Rover p5 and p4 with their massive suspension components and seen nothing as frustrating as this.

trikey · 17th September 2021, 13:13

Something is amiss here, I have done these in 45 mins per side on my driveway! They shouldn’t give you this much grief?

Cantray · 17th September 2021, 13:19

Agreed Trikey

At least 6 hours so far trying to get the bolts to thread - albeit not all in one sitting. Appear to perfectly aligned but just won't thread. I raised the thread in case I was missing something but I don't think so. Thank you!

Cantray · 17th September 2021, 15:09

Another 2 hours on this today and no closer to fixing. With hub off got a bit more movement in wishbone to align bush holder almost perfectly, but bolts will still not thread.
So tried Trikey's method reassembled hub, attached lower balljoint and jacked up hub. The bush holder is firmly wedged against body by this manoeuvre and there is no way the bolts are going to get anywhere near subframe.
When I see perfectly good cars in the scrapyard I often wonder how that happened. Sadly I have reached that point with this. The car cannot be driven at present and I don't see a way out as I have run out of time. This was supposed to be the easy part of the MOT fix.

roverbarmy · 17th September 2021, 16:10

Things to check:-
1. The bush mounting brackets are handed (LH and RH).
2. Did you mark the relative positions of the rubber and the arm? (position along the length of the arm and position of threepeny bit shaped bush on the arm) You could be out on those?
3. Did you check the old against the new mounting and bush for similarity?

16th September 2021, 14:51	#11
SD1too Doesn't do things by halves Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Former Middlesex Posts: 20,366 Thanks: 1,587 Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts	Hello Jim, Have you refitted the bush housing in exactly the right position? Did you measure the distance from the rear end of the housing to the end of the original suspension arm and transfer it to the new arm? There's a horizontal line cast into the end of the arm which should be parallel to the base of the bush housing. This confirms the correct rotational position. If you're still stuck, then extract the ARB saddle clamp bolts and move the bar forwards to make the job much easier. I recommend this anyway because the bush bolts' specified torque is 150 Nm. This job is not easy by any means so your frustration is normal. As you say, leave it now until tomorrow. A new dawn has got me out of trouble many times! Simon __________________ "Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." Sir Henry Royce. Last edited by SD1too; 16th September 2021 at 14:55..

16th September 2021, 16:55	#12
roverbarmy This is my second home Roverless + 1.7D Sportage Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Norfolk Posts: 7,050 Thanks: 729 Thanked 2,021 Times in 1,449 Posts	The arm is under a part rotation in situ so the bracket needs to be twisted slightly to line up the bolts. I used mole grips gripped and locked on the webs of the bracket to apply the bit of twist. Mole grips in one hand and bolt in the other, turn bolt anti clock until aligned then feel it in. Don't spanner it until it's well started. Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk __________________ Oil in my veins!

17th September 2021, 13:13	#17
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,765 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	Something is amiss here, I have done these in 45 mins per side on my driveway! They shouldn’t give you this much grief? __________________ Lest we forget..

17th September 2021, 16:10	#20
roverbarmy This is my second home Roverless + 1.7D Sportage Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Norfolk Posts: 7,050 Thanks: 729 Thanked 2,021 Times in 1,449 Posts	Things to check:- 1. The bush mounting brackets are handed (LH and RH). 2. Did you mark the relative positions of the rubber and the arm? (position along the length of the arm and position of threepeny bit shaped bush on the arm) You could be out on those? 3. Did you check the old against the new mounting and bush for similarity? __________________ Oil in my veins!

17th September 2021, 12:45	#16
Cantray Avid contributor Rover 75 1.8 Club SE, Rover 75 cdt Club, Rover 75 1.8 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Inverness Posts: 163 Thanks: 48 Thanked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Thanks to all who have replied particularly to Simon for the well established advice to sleep on it. The bush is aligned correctly on the arm. The threads in the arm and on the bolts are perfect they thread easily. The difficulty is in aligning the bush holder to allow the bolts to fall correctly into the subframe socket. With the hub on and the outer balljoint disconnected I can almost get there, but there is about 10 degrees off vertical that I can't correct with the hub in place because the hub restricts movement of the outer wishbone. I can correct this with an f clamp on the bush holder but cannot even then get the bolts to thread. With the outer balljoint in place and jacking up the hub to take weight of the car things are worse because there is no movement left in the wishbone - attempt to correct the 10 degrees broke my clamp! I realise this is a problem that others have not seen or have solved with one of the methods above but they are not working for me. So I am going to take the hub off the strut to give more room to adjust the wishbone and align the bush holder correctly. Reluctant to drop the subframe unless no other way. I imagine this would be easier with car on ramps and 2 strong mechanics but can't help cursing the engineer who thought this up. Have worked on Rover p5 and p4 with their massive suspension components and seen nothing as frustrating as this.

17th September 2021, 13:19	#18
Cantray Avid contributor Rover 75 1.8 Club SE, Rover 75 cdt Club, Rover 75 1.8 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Inverness Posts: 163 Thanks: 48 Thanked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Agreed Trikey At least 6 hours so far trying to get the bolts to thread - albeit not all in one sitting. Appear to perfectly aligned but just won't thread. I raised the thread in case I was missing something but I don't think so. Thank you!

17th September 2021, 15:09	#19
Cantray Avid contributor Rover 75 1.8 Club SE, Rover 75 cdt Club, Rover 75 1.8 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Inverness Posts: 163 Thanks: 48 Thanked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Another 2 hours on this today and no closer to fixing. With hub off got a bit more movement in wishbone to align bush holder almost perfectly, but bolts will still not thread. So tried Trikey's method reassembled hub, attached lower balljoint and jacked up hub. The bush holder is firmly wedged against body by this manoeuvre and there is no way the bolts are going to get anywhere near subframe. When I see perfectly good cars in the scrapyard I often wonder how that happened. Sadly I have reached that point with this. The car cannot be driven at present and I don't see a way out as I have run out of time. This was supposed to be the easy part of the MOT fix.