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Old 29th January 2021, 13:54   #1
Kamil93
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Default FBH Parking heater mystery and questions

Hello all,

First I have simply used remote switch into pin 1 to start the FBH before I get to car with the fob. On the fob Press A button turn on, press button B to turn off. To turn this off without needing of remember to press OFF button. I tapped a wire into existing one into ignition barrel loom. Once I start the car - the remote switch turn off and the FBH will continue in operation controlled by ambient sensor. INSTEAD - the FBH will start the shut down slowly and then to start again. This takes a lot of time and I believe its not good for the FBH itself.

Later I added a DPDT relay to operate ATC panel. Works fine. But in the end I expected the FBH to turn off as soon as it reached the required temperature (77C I believe). INSTEAD the FBH turned off and started again immediately. (in this point the temp gauge was in 1/4).The cabin was pretty warm already. After about 40 mins of heating.

In the auxillary mod the FBH works without any troubles.

So I have troubles with shutting down it properly I guess. It will drain my battery like this. I need to count on it.

I've been throught tons of how to's and pdf's found there (perfect things ) before installation and after but I must still miss something.

None of the how to's mentioned this kind of trouble or what to check.

Any suggestions please ? How it's supposed to work in the proper way ?

I hope that my post is understable. i will provide any other information if needed.

My suspects are: the remote switch operation or connection.
The Gates thermostat mod added into top hose leaving the old one dead in place.
Providing +12V using pin 1 (test mode ?)
Missing something else.

Thanks

Last edited by Kamil93; 29th January 2021 at 14:24..
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Old 29th January 2021, 18:01   #2
trebor
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Hi Kamil, I understand what you are trying to achieve and not sure how you have wired the ignition to switch off your remote but it looks like what is happening is that your remote is getting the signal to switch off before the supplementary mode is kicking in, which is enough to shut down the FBH and restart it again once it has completed its shut down procedure.

I assume you live in a cold climate but don’t forget that whilst the remote will switch the heater on at any time the supplementary feed needs the temp to be 5 degrees or below

The heaters are designed to use pins 1 and 3 ,one for supplementary and one for parking heater, so why not use as intended and remove whatever you have wired to the ignition ? You could always isolate the supplementary mode and just leave it working as a parking heater as an option and then when you get in the car in parking heater mode just leave it running. If you are concerned about forgetting to switch it off you could also consider using a timer relay

Whichever mode the heater is in it should ramp down around 71c and then go into idle around 77c, most people who use their heaters in parking mode will get in the car before the temp reaches 71c because they will only be left about 15/20 minutes which is usually enough to get the cabin warm and defrost the windscreen but it wont be at 71c by then. If you are not sure if your coolant is getting to 71c why not use the onboard diagnostics via the trip meter, option 19 then 7 to see coolant temperature during your journey
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Old 29th January 2021, 18:16   #3
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Hey Kamil.

Just to add to what trebor said


So you are using the PCB that the car temp sensor uses 12v to pin 3, and remote 12v to pin 1.

If the FBH is started by the engine temperature sensor, it does not shut off until the engine is stopped. The FBH gets a continuous start command as long as the engine is running. It does not stop and start again, it goes into part load and idle until the coolant goes below, 58°C, a sort of standby.

There are many ways to modify your FBH to your own liking as I have. I recommend you cut the FBH communication with the temp sensor

What you need is total control, with LED's you can see from inside and outside the car, to tell you when the FBH is running, and when the FBH has started the ATC.

When the IGN is turned on, the LED's visible from the outside are turned off.

When you get into the car, the interior LED's will tell you the running state of the FBH, you can then simply push a button to turn off and reset the remote control.

You can also have a switch inside the car, to turn on/off the FBH without using remote control

You seem to pretty much know what you are doing, so the above are some ideas. Will PM you over the weekend as SWMBO wants us to go shopping.

Or PM me with any relay wiring info you need.

Oh and stopping/starting does no harm the FBH. When the FBH is started for less than 3 minutes, turned off, and not started again, this leads to soot and carbon build up.

Last edited by Devilish; 29th January 2021 at 18:22..
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Old 30th January 2021, 20:16   #4
Kamil93
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Hello guys,

Thanks for your extensive replies.

I have the early Webasto 66232D (not C).

My imagination of heating is like if it was factory fitted, with telestart and webasto timer (which I will fit). But to be honest, I have never seen any. So I dont know if the parking heater uses ambient temp sensor to work as an aux at all ? Or is this function lost on factory parking heaters ?

I describe my morning: Start heating with the fob about 20 minutes before I go to car. Sometimes it’s off already, sometimes still running. Then I start car, the heater shut down, then drive about half a mile during which it starts again. Then I am stopping the car for a while - another shut down. Back in car in few minutes - start again. Drive few miles to work during which the car warm up and the heater turn off before end od the trip.

So I guess I only need the first 20 or 30 mins of heating before I drive. Car is already warm inside, the frost is gone and the engine is not completely cold. Dont care it’s not on running temp.
If it’s running when I start the engine I want it to work until running temp then shut down automatically. Without any unwanted restarts.

How do I achieve this ?
Remove the “shutting down” wire when I start the engine ?
Remove the auxillary mode by cutting temp sensor wire ?
Wire the remote into existing temp sensor wire ?

I’d like to keep as “factory” as possible. The less cables and modules the better.

And a question: do the ATC start by itself once gets a signal from pin 4 on webasto or do I have to left ATC on from last drive ?
Im quite not sure about that.

Thanks

Last edited by Kamil93; 30th January 2021 at 20:26..
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Old 30th January 2021, 22:53   #5
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Kamil , Its starting and stopping because its working as a supplementary heater so each time you switch the car off it will go off after completing its shut down procedure, and when the car is started again it will come back on if the temperature is 5 degrees or below.

If you do as Steve suggested and cut the wire for the supplementary heater you will have total control with your remote so it is on when you tell it to be on and off when you tell it to be off, no more stopping and starting with the engine on and off

The ATC is not clever enough to switch itself on so you have to leave it on the setting you want the day before and once it then gets the signal it will come on the last setting you made

Because you have the early model you might find that your ATC switches on 5 minutes after the heater starts which it is intended to do so it doesn’t blow cold air in the first few minutes of combustion, the later model 98570B starts the ATC with the heater so it does blow cold for the first few minutes until the heater starts to get the coolant warm

So yes do 2 of these as you suggest:

Remove the “shutting down” wire when I start the engine ?
Remove the auxillary mode by cutting temp sensor wire ?

Then wire the remote into either pin 1 or pin 3 as they both take 12v and the only signal your heater will get will be from your remote fob and you will have total control
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Last edited by trebor; 31st January 2021 at 01:32..
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Old 3rd February 2021, 15:21   #6
Kamil93
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Hello,

Yes, I have already tested and verified that the ATC was not coming on by itself. No problem, I will get use to it.

OK, OK. I will disconnect the pin 3 for aux heater elimination. If I got it correctly the full parking heater factory option doesn't have the Aux heater option ? And the shutting down of factory fitted PH - how is that intented ?

Now, for some time I test it with "my" switch off wire solution, then I remove it eventually. I don't want to keep to switch it off manually in my mind.

Thank you guys !
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Old 3rd February 2021, 15:31   #7
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Kamil, yes the factory option does have the supplementary heater option as well as the parking option, but with the parking option you don't really need the supplementary option, and even if you wanted to use the heater as a supplementary only, you can just switch the heater on with the remote when you get in the car which does the same thing.

If your journey involves short journeys and lost of stops in cold weather then the supplementary will just keep switching the heater on and off, with just having the parking heater option you will have full control, and just switch on and off with your remote
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Last edited by trebor; 3rd February 2021 at 20:37..
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