Another Ztt bites the dust - probably

[clf]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

I certainly remember seeing things like A35 vans fitted with seats when I was a kid - I seem to remember that this was done for a tax saving of some sort. Tho’ I think I am correct in saying it was to do with the old Purchase Tax not applying to commercial vehicles over here rather than VED.

I think if you retro-fitted the windows to what was a van you had to pay the Purchase Tax? - memory a bit hazy here - I just remember my Dad and my Uncle discussing it.

yes that is what it was, I am not sure what the situation is 'down south' as the cars seem to be cars now. But ultimately it is the same as the window tax, brick up a window or two and save tax. These vans were vans to start with, but the popularity grew, that an aftermarket kit of rear seats and belts were made available by the dealer. You bought the van, and as dealer option, you bought the seat pack lol.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by topman

I think it's a bit unfair. I think there may be people who buy cars that they don't 'need' and live with no off road parking.

But I don't think people are battling with parking all for no reason at all.

More than likely they have three workers in the house who need a car to get to work.

At the end of the day, we can only go by what we see and experience. Which is why with the specific areas that I highlighted I also mentioned the excellent public transport in all directions.

Driving unnecessarily instead of taking public transport is to be seen on the M4/A4 into London every weekday morning with mile after mile of private cars in tailbacks.

Originally Posted by Darcydog

“when people curtail their desire to own cars when none is necessary”

You really are an arrogant ****.

Member remains below engagement worthiness threshold. Ignored.

[topman]

Originally Posted by mss

At the end of the day, we can only go by what we see and experience. Which is why with the specific areas that I highlighted I also mentioned the excellent public transport in all directions.

Driving unnecessarily instead of taking public transport is to be seen on the M4/A4 into London every weekday morning with mile after mile of private cars in tailbacks.

You can also see trains full to bursting on practically all routes into london. Its not always an option but many do travel by train.

I don't think people are sitting in nose to tail traffic for amusement.

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by mss

Actually gents, I grew up in an end-terraced house. My father lived there until he passed away just a few years ago and we still own the property. My sister still lives in a terraced house as do many of my friends. So my comments are based on first-hand experience as well as what I see all around when I visit family/friends living on the outskirts of our cities.

Both the above roads were really clean, pleasant, quite residential areas. Now, quite a few of the residents have 2 or 3 cars per household despite the excellent and low-cost public transport in all directions. As a result, cars are parked on pavements and even grassed children's play areas turning them into fields of mud. Last year the council finally got fed up and fenced the areas off. Now, the parking is so bad that some weeks even refuse collection lorries cannot get through. Given the house prices in such areas, teenagers are likely to stay at home longer and the situation will only get worse unless people curtail their desire to own cars when none is necessary.

If I lived there, I would not own a car, just as my sister does not. Owning one, let alone 2 or 3, is totally unnecessary and unreasonable for the location. This problem is widespread.

As for my own situation, yes, I do own five cars and two bikes. But they are all kept off the road on my own property and I do not ever begrudge paying the associated VED etc. despite the fact that each one covers very little mileage.

Incredible.---Don't do as I do, do as I say.

A guy with money telling poorer people to make their situation worse by getting rid of the transport they need to earn a living.

They wouldn't live where they live or do what they do if they had his sort of property or wealth.

[Comfortably Numb]

If the government redistributed VED onto fuel, I would definitely think about my car commute, currently 98miles a day in my less-polluting-than-a 1.8K series CDT. It takes me an hour, rural door to semi- rural door. Any alternative to personal transport would take over 2 hours and 3 changes, and cost far more, even if I had to buy a replacement CDT every year. So until the government force me to change my ways by twisting my economic wrist, or the Rover proves to be a moneypit (it hasn't so far), I will consider the £195 VED excellent value at currently less than 1p/mile this year. I am considering an old Prius for my next car - my sacrifice to the needs of the environment, although Cumbria is not known for its atmospheric pollution - it mostly gets washed out by the rain, and is so dilute, we even have freshwater crayfish in some rivers! The cost of road maintenance is directly proportionate to how much fuel we use, either because of the size of car or the way we drive, or both, so if they got the tax on fuel right, it would not only be fair, but the more we used, the more money we could spend on roads or other forms of transport, and you couldn't dodge paying it, unless you stole your fuel. And I'm sorry, but I don't accept that this would be unfair on the impoverished worker, forced to drive long distances in an old car to reach work. I would just have to reconsider my priorities in life, move home, change work or all of them.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by COLVERT

Incredible.---Don't do as I do, do as I say.

A guy with money telling poorer people to make their situation worse by getting rid of the transport they need to earn a living.

They wouldn't live where they live or do what they do if they had his sort of property or wealth.

Not quite - do as I did, my family still do and I would do again under the same circumstances. That is to live and act with respect for the environment and others around me.

People were able to work and earn a living before multi-car households became widespread. In and around our major cities that is still very possible. I have spent considerable amounts of time in Central London during the past 20 years. The car was always left parked at my fathers on the outskirts if I was there for multiple days or I took the train from Suffolk to London for single days. The car never went beyond outer London.

For many people, car ownership/use is about convenience and status (as it is for me). It is this dynamic that is responsible for the nation's finances i.e. borrowing to overspend.

Finally, you know nothing about my state of wealth or otherwise.

[mystabe]

Originally Posted by COLVERT

Incredible.---Don't do as I do, do as I say.

A guy with money telling poorer people to make their situation worse by getting rid of the transport they need to earn a living.

They wouldn't live where they live or do what they do if they had his sort of property or wealth.

Yeah but the general point is that we should be able to get about a lot more on public transport. I went on a night out in Manchester recently, driving into Manchester is a nightmare at the moment because people have decided in their great wisdom to convert the M62 into a 'Smart Motorway' at the same time as doing major roadworks on the main road into Manchester. I'll get the train I thought -£12 no parking hassles and I can get as drunk as I like. However, because of industrial action coinciding with rail infrastructure work you will struggle to get a train from Wigan to Manchester at the weekend at the moment so I had to drive..... and people wonder why city centre's are in trouble.....

[Tim JMGRs]

Well I'm bidding on it!!

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by mystabe

Yeah but the general point is that we should be able to get about a lot more on public transport. I went on a night out in Manchester recently, driving into Manchester is a nightmare at the moment because people have decided in their great wisdom to convert the M62 into a 'Smart Motorway' at the same time as doing major roadworks on the main road into Manchester. I'll get the train I thought -£12 no parking hassles and I can get as drunk as I like. However, because of industrial action coinciding with rail infrastructure work you will struggle to get a train from Wigan to Manchester at the weekend at the moment so I had to drive..... and people wonder why city centre's are in trouble.....

I drove 12 sixth form students to London a while back. We went to a Spanish Film event at the BFI, South Bank.

Fuel was about £30 - all day parking via Britannia Parking just behind Thomy’s was £20 and the Congestion Charge was £11.50.

So just over £60

The cost by rail was about £45 per person return.

Go figure.....

[marinabrian]

Hopefully Tim will get the car and put it out of it's misery

No bids.........scrap it !!

LINK

Brian