clutch problem

Sable 10 · 14th December 2014, 15:45

hi. had a problem with the clutch pedal going to the floor and haveing to bleed and top up the fluid.took the car to my local garage and he changed the master cylinder,made by tazu,and the slave cylinder along with the clutch.the clutch was a good quality LUK. two weeks later the clutch pedal was on the floor and difficulty in changing gear.the garage has now bled the system a number of times including reverse bleeding,this has been going on since june,yet approx every 2 weeks the clutch bite moves to the floor and the gears become difficult to change.the fluid level in the master cylinder does not appear to drop.the mechanic is slightly reluctant to strip it down again to check the new slave as it doesn't seem to be loosing fluid.the chances of the thing failing from new would seem to be pretty bad luck,but on top of this the parts were bought from eurocar parts which went into administration a month later so theres no guarantee on the parts.can anyone suggest any other possible cause.can air get in without fluid getting out?my mechanic is at a loss and it would seem i may have to pay to have it all done again,regards nielsen

FrenchMike · 14th December 2014, 16:26

Hi,

You can have a very small leak somewhere ;not always easy to detect .

I used that old trick:

800x600.jpg

And found there was the bleed nipple weeping !!!

Good luck

Sable 10 · 14th December 2014, 16:48

hi, there's no sign of fluid around or below the bleed nipple or indeed the connector.the clutch must have been bled now over a dozen times so the nipple will have been tightened up differently each time yet each time its 2 weeks and the bite will be at the floor with no visible sign of any fluid loss,nielsen

FrenchMike · 14th December 2014, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable 10

hi, there's no sign of fluid around or below the bleed nipple or indeed the connector.the clutch must have been bled now over a dozen times so the nipple will have been tightened up differently each time yet each time its 2 weeks and the bite will be at the floor with no visible sign of any fluid loss,nielsen

I have had this one with the genuine master ;pedal to floor ,no fluid lost.

It was the famous seal/valve simply dirty;here it is situated :

THE seal.jpg

master seal marks.jpg

Mike

Sable 10 · 14th December 2014, 17:23

hi i'll certainly check that although it'll have to be wednesday.the master cylinder was changed at the same time for a tazu upgraded model so again it would have had to fail from new,nielsen

FrenchMike · 14th December 2014, 17:53

So ,have a look here:

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=185693

75er · 17th December 2014, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable 10

hi i'll certainly check that although it'll have to be wednesday.the master cylinder was changed at the same time for a tazu upgraded model so again it would have had to fail from new,nielsen

My car has developed exactly the same problem, not had the car long so not certain of it's clutch history. Got into the car today after a couple of weeks not using it to find it difficult to select gears, nice man from the AA pumped peddle for ages before deciding to open the nipple and try to bleed the system, promptly lost what clutch there was and just couldn't then get any fluid to flow no matter how much pumping we did, so its a tow to garage after Christmas. Doesn't seem to be leaking fluid. Hope when I do manage to get the system bled I only have to do it once and it doesn't keep happening like it is with you. Will check out what French Mike says about the master seal/vale contamination. Keep us posted on how you get on and if you find the problem.

roverbarmy · 17th December 2014, 18:25

Have you tried the reverse bleeding method, by pushing fluid back from the bleed nipple. The suggested way was with a washing up bottle (or a large syringe) of brake fluid connected to a tube on the nipple, open nipple (2 spanners) and squeeze washing up bottle/syringe whilst inverted. Nip up the nipple (using two spanners so as not to break the seal on the pipe to slave connection). Make sure to have another helper with a container/rags/paper towels under the master cylinder to catch the excess fluid which will overflow the reservoir. There is no need to have the pedal pumped using this method and bubbles will flow naturally up to highest level (ie. master cylinder reservoir). You may need to remove some under bonnet components to get to the bleed nipple.(ie. air filter box on a petrol)
Mike

75er · 17th December 2014, 19:34

Hi Mike, yes the AA man had a large syringe attached to the nipple but I couldn't see exactly what he was doing and assume he was trying to push fluid through, no movement at all of the fluid or signs of bubbles at the reservoir end. As the car was facing slightly uphill he even jacked up the back end to level up the system. Having read up on posts it seems the first think will be to replace MC seals once the fluid is out and hope that sorts the problem.

roverbarmy · 18th December 2014, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75er

no movement at all of the fluid or signs of bubbles at the reservoir end

You have to raise the clutch pedal to bleed from the nipple to the reservoir. If the pedal is down, the piston seals will not allow fluid back into the reservoir ( it will hydraulically lock). With the pedal up (piston and seals retracted), there should be a free passage for the fluid to return to the reservoir.
Mike

14th December 2014, 15:45	#1
Sable 10 Newbie Rover 75 saloon Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Coldstream Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	clutch problem hi. had a problem with the clutch pedal going to the floor and haveing to bleed and top up the fluid.took the car to my local garage and he changed the master cylinder,made by tazu,and the slave cylinder along with the clutch.the clutch was a good quality LUK. two weeks later the clutch pedal was on the floor and difficulty in changing gear.the garage has now bled the system a number of times including reverse bleeding,this has been going on since june,yet approx every 2 weeks the clutch bite moves to the floor and the gears become difficult to change.the fluid level in the master cylinder does not appear to drop.the mechanic is slightly reluctant to strip it down again to check the new slave as it doesn't seem to be loosing fluid.the chances of the thing failing from new would seem to be pretty bad luck,but on top of this the parts were bought from eurocar parts which went into administration a month later so theres no guarantee on the parts.can anyone suggest any other possible cause.can air get in without fluid getting out?my mechanic is at a loss and it would seem i may have to pay to have it all done again,regards nielsen

14th December 2014, 16:26	#2
FrenchMike This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Avignon Posts: 4,466 Thanks: 94 Thanked 661 Times in 554 Posts	Hi, You can have a very small leak somewhere ;not always easy to detect . I used that old trick: 800x600.jpg And found there was the bleed nipple weeping !!! Good luck Last edited by FrenchMike; 14th December 2014 at 16:31..

17th December 2014, 18:25	#8
roverbarmy This is my second home Roverless + 1.7D Sportage Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Norfolk Posts: 7,050 Thanks: 729 Thanked 2,021 Times in 1,449 Posts	Have you tried the reverse bleeding method, by pushing fluid back from the bleed nipple. The suggested way was with a washing up bottle (or a large syringe) of brake fluid connected to a tube on the nipple, open nipple (2 spanners) and squeeze washing up bottle/syringe whilst inverted. Nip up the nipple (using two spanners so as not to break the seal on the pipe to slave connection). Make sure to have another helper with a container/rags/paper towels under the master cylinder to catch the excess fluid which will overflow the reservoir. There is no need to have the pedal pumped using this method and bubbles will flow naturally up to highest level (ie. master cylinder reservoir). You may need to remove some under bonnet components to get to the bleed nipple.(ie. air filter box on a petrol) Mike __________________ Oil in my veins! Last edited by roverbarmy; 17th December 2014 at 18:27..

14th December 2014, 16:48	#3
Sable 10 Newbie Rover 75 saloon Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Coldstream Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	hi, there's no sign of fluid around or below the bleed nipple or indeed the connector.the clutch must have been bled now over a dozen times so the nipple will have been tightened up differently each time yet each time its 2 weeks and the bite will be at the floor with no visible sign of any fluid loss,nielsen

14th December 2014, 17:23	#5
Sable 10 Newbie Rover 75 saloon Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Coldstream Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	hi i'll certainly check that although it'll have to be wednesday.the master cylinder was changed at the same time for a tazu upgraded model so again it would have had to fail from new,nielsen

14th December 2014, 17:53	#6
FrenchMike This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Avignon Posts: 4,466 Thanks: 94 Thanked 661 Times in 554 Posts	So ,have a look here: http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=185693

17th December 2014, 19:34	#9
75er Avid contributor Rover 75 Connie SE Tourer cdti Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Plymouth Posts: 165 Thanks: 29 Thanked 25 Times in 19 Posts	Hi Mike, yes the AA man had a large syringe attached to the nipple but I couldn't see exactly what he was doing and assume he was trying to push fluid through, no movement at all of the fluid or signs of bubbles at the reservoir end. As the car was facing slightly uphill he even jacked up the back end to level up the system. Having read up on posts it seems the first think will be to replace MC seals once the fluid is out and hope that sorts the problem.