The euro - what a mess

man of kent · 9th December 2011, 08:12

Its not surprising the Euro is in trouble. Remember the ERM (exchange rate mechanism) which was the forrunner of the Euro and was supposed to stabilise all the currencies before going into the Euro. We were in it. The idea was that there would be an exchange rate for all the currencies and if one was under attack, all the other countries would buy that attacked currency. So what happened, the speculators attacked the pound and Europe started to buy pounds and then - Germany would not buy anymore and the pound crashed and we dropped out. So much for trusting Europe!

So whats happened with the Euro?. It wa supposed to be a monetary union but Germany would not allow Brussels to control them so it had to go ahead with no monetary union against the advise of Jac Delors. This meant that the powerful German export economy could just keep exporting to the weak members. The Germans new the southern countries were getting into trouble but just kept pouring the goods into them whilst they had to keep borrowing. Now the s..t has hit the frying pan and the Germans will not consider monetary union simply because they have been doing very well.
Why should they bale out the others? Why not. They are a major cause of the problem. They just turned a blind eye to the southern countries.

The Euro would be a very good idea if Germany was outside. You have to play fair and not prove that you are the best which still seems to be a dominant aspect of their nature.

So what does Germany want from the UK. They want us to help bale out the Euro after they did not back us in the ERM. And take control of the London financial markets which would then move to Frankfurt. What a cheek. Unfortunately they are in such a dominant position in Europe the rest of the European countries are hesitant to speak up as they need germanys support as there is nowhere else to go. I dont think they can expect much from Germany.

I was a big supporter of Europe, but not now. There is no way it will work with the German system which by German law protects their dominant position in Europe. Merkel just cannot give anything away and hence I see no solution and neither do the markets.

Number 6 · 9th December 2011, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by man of kent

Its not surprising the Euro is in trouble. Remember the ERM (exchange rate mechanism) which was the forrunner of the Euro and was supposed to stabilise all the currencies before going into the Euro. We were in it. The idea was that there would be an exchange rate for all the currencies and if one was under attack, all the other countries would buy that attacked currency. So what happened, the speculators attacked the pound and Europe started to buy pounds and then - Germany would not buy anymore and the pound crashed and we dropped out. So much for trusting Europe!

So whats happened with the Euro?. It wa supposed to be a monetary union but Germany would not allow Brussels to control them so it had to go ahead with no monetary union against the advise of Jac Delors. This meant that the powerful German export economy could just keep exporting to the weak members. The Germans new the southern countries were getting into trouble but just kept pouring the goods into them whilst they had to keep borrowing. Now the s..t has hit the frying pan and the Germans will not consider monetary union simply because they have been doing very well.
Why should they bale out the others? Why not. They are a major cause of the problem. They just turned a blind eye to the southern countries.

The Euro would be a very good idea if Germany was outside. You have to play fair and not prove that you are the best which still seems to be a dominant aspect of their nature.

So what does Germany want from the UK. They want us to help bale out the Euro after they did not back us in the ERM. And take control of the London financial markets which would then move to Frankfurt. What a cheek. Unfortunately they are in such a dominant position in Europe the rest of the European countries are hesitant to speak up as they need germanys support as there is nowhere else to go. I dont think they can expect much from Germany.

I was a big supporter of Europe, but not now. There is no way it will work with the German system which by German law protects their dominant position in Europe. Merkel just cannot give anything away and hence I see no solution and neither do the markets.

So even after loosing twice,they still want to rule Europe

windrush · 9th December 2011, 08:31

I think its time we got out Times may be hard for us to start with but I am sure that we would get over it and start our factories manufacturing again instead be taking over by the Germans and French only to be closed down

demoncase · 9th December 2011, 08:36

The most amusing thing about this is that the French have trusted the Germans to play fair, when twice in 100 years they proved they won't to the tune of 6 million lives first time round and 55 million the next time....

And anyone thinks they'll 'play fair' when it comes to a few quid?.

I should coco.

windrush · 9th December 2011, 08:54

Can any one tell just what we have got out of the common market beside a lot of hassle I voted to join the common market on the lie told to us at the time that it was for free trade not a dictatorship by Germany

Banjo · 9th December 2011, 08:56

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6vLC06a7J0

Apparently the little rascals have ordered the Deutchmark to be printed again, in preparation for the Euro collapse. As the anthem used to say, Deutchland Deutchland uber alles .....

Yella Fella · 9th December 2011, 10:51

The euro mess confirms that unity is not always a strength.

wraymond · 9th December 2011, 13:41

I'm not a fan of David Cameron, he's a Blair wannabe after all, but I've just seen on the news that French pygmy (apologies to people of short stature everywhere) blank him in public. So I think he now needs some support.

The old prejudices surface again, I'm afraid. All the grandstanding about unity healing the wounds of 20th. century conflicts is after all only skin deep - while it suits slack-jawed liars.

The UK had a sound trading basis and trade surpluses with our continental neighbours before we were part of it, I can't see why that shouldn't be again. Unless of course you discount treachery by politicians bent on vengeance. We buy more from Europe than we export to it and we are disadvantaged by CAP and Fishing rights etc. For a country to lose its food industries (agriculture, fish) voluntarily is criminal in my view. It's a very one-sided affair.

I often feel that to call another country out is inappropriate. There's nothing wrong with the peoples of another country, it's always the politicians. They are congenitally incompetent and totally false. They wreak havoc wherever they go and mysteriously always manage to evade any repurcussions or liabilities afterwards. For instance, how many members of successive governments have had their offspring in the armed services and killed or injured in wars? Proportionately miniscule.

Might I suggest that references to Germany, France, Italy, Greece etc. be in future referred to with the distinction of 'politicians' as in:
German politicians, French politicians and so on. Perhaps then temperate language can be focussed on the appropriate targets. After all, they do all speak English.

FredSpencer · 9th December 2011, 16:26

Don't get me started!

Politicians!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH HH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roverowner · 9th December 2011, 17:07

Thing is that for years the member nations have been borrowing and taking money out of the EU kitty like there was no tomorrow. How many times have certain countries gone over budget just to get a slap on the hand from big brother in Brussels. Then they have just continued borrowing and spending although there hasn´t been any substance to it all. Now the bubble has burst and everyone (read politial collective) are screeming from the rooftops. All a good ploy to get even more tax out of the few of those still in employment. They haven´t a clue how to solve it all as there is no comercial base left in many of the countries. The Germans are trying to save what can be saved. The French think they can hang on to the Germans coat tails in the hope they will be drawn along by them.

EU politicians (and most of the national politicians) have a liking for selling off all -the problems- to private industry, in the hope that they will sort things out (in the name of making even more money) Of course the private sector isn´t interested in 6000 workers in Birmingham or the workers at SAAB in Sweden. Just get the technoligy as cheaply as pos and then strip the assets. Normal practice. Of course most of the top politicians have a finger in the -industrialites- pie and as long as they make their millions and then can -bow out-, alls huncky dorry. Tehy have been doing it for centuries and as long as you manage to get into the -club- you´re alright. The state of the western world is looking more and more like the Romans before the preverbial hit the fan (and Erik from southern Sweden wrote obcene jokes in runic on the colums of the coloseum:xmas-smiley-004

Of course now it would have to be manderin......

Nothing wrong with the peoples of Europe (or anywhere else for that matter). They are pushed in certain directions whether they like it or not.
Ever wondered who actually owns all the debt. Answer is 2 or 3 blokes with inscrutable smiles. Why have a big war when you can litterally buy out the opposition. -King and Country- If the -enemy- or more like the system that wants to take over most things, own - Country- then that only leaves you with an expensive monachy........

2 of the 3 most powerfull countries in the world are run by dictators. With the decline of the USA (whether you like them or not) has made the world situation very unstable. When other -wanna be- countries see that the americans have reached the end of the everlasting -golden fountain-, then there will be rucksions from a lot of quarters where a feudal type of system predominates. If they haven´t got the hardware then they will have the -masses- A form of Stalins old -Quantity has a quality all of it´s own-

What to do. Not much -Jack Jones- can do. Get used to -the cold-

Sounds very depressing and I hope I´ve got it all wrong. Somehow I don´t think so though.....

9th December 2011, 08:12	#1
man of kent Loves to post 75 tourer auto diesel Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Nordelph, nr Downham Market Posts: 419 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The euro - what a mess Its not surprising the Euro is in trouble. Remember the ERM (exchange rate mechanism) which was the forrunner of the Euro and was supposed to stabilise all the currencies before going into the Euro. We were in it. The idea was that there would be an exchange rate for all the currencies and if one was under attack, all the other countries would buy that attacked currency. So what happened, the speculators attacked the pound and Europe started to buy pounds and then - Germany would not buy anymore and the pound crashed and we dropped out. So much for trusting Europe! So whats happened with the Euro?. It wa supposed to be a monetary union but Germany would not allow Brussels to control them so it had to go ahead with no monetary union against the advise of Jac Delors. This meant that the powerful German export economy could just keep exporting to the weak members. The Germans new the southern countries were getting into trouble but just kept pouring the goods into them whilst they had to keep borrowing. Now the s..t has hit the frying pan and the Germans will not consider monetary union simply because they have been doing very well. Why should they bale out the others? Why not. They are a major cause of the problem. They just turned a blind eye to the southern countries. The Euro would be a very good idea if Germany was outside. You have to play fair and not prove that you are the best which still seems to be a dominant aspect of their nature. So what does Germany want from the UK. They want us to help bale out the Euro after they did not back us in the ERM. And take control of the London financial markets which would then move to Frankfurt. What a cheek. Unfortunately they are in such a dominant position in Europe the rest of the European countries are hesitant to speak up as they need germanys support as there is nowhere else to go. I dont think they can expect much from Germany. I was a big supporter of Europe, but not now. There is no way it will work with the German system which by German law protects their dominant position in Europe. Merkel just cannot give anything away and hence I see no solution and neither do the markets.

9th December 2011, 08:31	#3
windrush This is my second home December 2004 Rover 75 2ltr CDTi Connoisseur SE HL Tourer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aldershot Posts: 74,464 Thanks: 2,431 Thanked 3,015 Times in 2,347 Posts	I think its time we got out Times may be hard for us to start with but I am sure that we would get over it and start our factories manufacturing again instead be taking over by the Germans and French only to be closed down __________________ ][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] My Pearl Black Beauty Best regards Lilian and Derek Club Member No. 96 / Forum User No. 111 REGISTRATION to the club as a member FREE, FULL MEMBERSHIP is £10 WE WILL REMEMBER THEM

9th December 2011, 08:36	#4
demoncase Avid contributor Ford Mondeo TDDCi 2.0 130hp Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Wolverhampton Posts: 204 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The most amusing thing about this is that the French have trusted the Germans to play fair, when twice in 100 years they proved they won't to the tune of 6 million lives first time round and 55 million the next time.... And anyone thinks they'll 'play fair' when it comes to a few quid?. I should coco. __________________ Nothing in his pockets except knives and lint....

9th December 2011, 08:54	#5
windrush This is my second home December 2004 Rover 75 2ltr CDTi Connoisseur SE HL Tourer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aldershot Posts: 74,464 Thanks: 2,431 Thanked 3,015 Times in 2,347 Posts	Can any one tell just what we have got out of the common market beside a lot of hassle I voted to join the common market on the lie told to us at the time that it was for free trade not a dictatorship by Germany __________________ ][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] My Pearl Black Beauty Best regards Lilian and Derek Club Member No. 96 / Forum User No. 111 REGISTRATION to the club as a member FREE, FULL MEMBERSHIP is £10 WE WILL REMEMBER THEM

9th December 2011, 10:51	#7
Yella Fella Nemo Me Impune Lacessit None at the moment Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Glasgow's HMP Barlinnie, 'A' Hall, 2nd Flat Posts: 5,192 Thanks: 493 Thanked 1,094 Times in 666 Posts	The euro mess confirms that unity is not always a strength. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

9th December 2011, 08:56	#6
Banjo Posted a thing or two MG6 Magnette 1.8 Tci SE Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Shrewsbury Posts: 1,300 Thanks: 19 Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6vLC06a7J0 Apparently the little rascals have ordered the Deutchmark to be printed again, in preparation for the Euro collapse. As the anthem used to say, Deutchland Deutchland uber alles .....

9th December 2011, 13:41	#8
wraymond This is my second home 75 Auto 2.5 SE Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Westcliff on Sea Posts: 5,206 Thanks: 423 Thanked 1,680 Times in 1,014 Posts	I'm not a fan of David Cameron, he's a Blair wannabe after all, but I've just seen on the news that French pygmy (apologies to people of short stature everywhere) blank him in public. So I think he now needs some support. The old prejudices surface again, I'm afraid. All the grandstanding about unity healing the wounds of 20th. century conflicts is after all only skin deep - while it suits slack-jawed liars. The UK had a sound trading basis and trade surpluses with our continental neighbours before we were part of it, I can't see why that shouldn't be again. Unless of course you discount treachery by politicians bent on vengeance. We buy more from Europe than we export to it and we are disadvantaged by CAP and Fishing rights etc. For a country to lose its food industries (agriculture, fish) voluntarily is criminal in my view. It's a very one-sided affair. I often feel that to call another country out is inappropriate. There's nothing wrong with the peoples of another country, it's always the politicians. They are congenitally incompetent and totally false. They wreak havoc wherever they go and mysteriously always manage to evade any repurcussions or liabilities afterwards. For instance, how many members of successive governments have had their offspring in the armed services and killed or injured in wars? Proportionately miniscule. Might I suggest that references to Germany, France, Italy, Greece etc. be in future referred to with the distinction of 'politicians' as in: German politicians, French politicians and so on. Perhaps then temperate language can be focussed on the appropriate targets. After all, they do all speak English.

9th December 2011, 16:26	#9
FredSpencer Passed Away Typhoon ZT 190+ Saloon Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Leeds Posts: 6,833 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	Don't get me started! Politicians! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH HH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

9th December 2011, 17:07	#10
Roverowner Retired CDTi Tourer 2005 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Linköping Posts: 5,023 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thing is that for years the member nations have been borrowing and taking money out of the EU kitty like there was no tomorrow. How many times have certain countries gone over budget just to get a slap on the hand from big brother in Brussels. Then they have just continued borrowing and spending although there hasn´t been any substance to it all. Now the bubble has burst and everyone (read politial collective) are screeming from the rooftops. All a good ploy to get even more tax out of the few of those still in employment. They haven´t a clue how to solve it all as there is no comercial base left in many of the countries. The Germans are trying to save what can be saved. The French think they can hang on to the Germans coat tails in the hope they will be drawn along by them. EU politicians (and most of the national politicians) have a liking for selling off all -the problems- to private industry, in the hope that they will sort things out (in the name of making even more money) Of course the private sector isn´t interested in 6000 workers in Birmingham or the workers at SAAB in Sweden. Just get the technoligy as cheaply as pos and then strip the assets. Normal practice. Of course most of the top politicians have a finger in the -industrialites- pie and as long as they make their millions and then can -bow out-, alls huncky dorry. Tehy have been doing it for centuries and as long as you manage to get into the -club- you´re alright. The state of the western world is looking more and more like the Romans before the preverbial hit the fan (and Erik from southern Sweden wrote obcene jokes in runic on the colums of the coloseum:xmas-smiley-004 Of course now it would have to be manderin...... Nothing wrong with the peoples of Europe (or anywhere else for that matter). They are pushed in certain directions whether they like it or not. Ever wondered who actually owns all the debt. Answer is 2 or 3 blokes with inscrutable smiles. Why have a big war when you can litterally buy out the opposition. -King and Country- If the -enemy- or more like the system that wants to take over most things, own - Country- then that only leaves you with an expensive monachy........ 2 of the 3 most powerfull countries in the world are run by dictators. With the decline of the USA (whether you like them or not) has made the world situation very unstable. When other -wanna be- countries see that the americans have reached the end of the everlasting -golden fountain-, then there will be rucksions from a lot of quarters where a feudal type of system predominates. If they haven´t got the hardware then they will have the -masses- A form of Stalins old -Quantity has a quality all of it´s own- What to do. Not much -Jack Jones- can do. Get used to -the cold- Sounds very depressing and I hope I´ve got it all wrong. Somehow I don´t think so though.....