I have a serious problem with the NHS.

Saga Lout · 20th July 2021, 20:39

I'm in a sticky situation right now with my local Hospital, it's Wigan Royal Albert Edward Infirmary. I can't say too much tonight but I need to get a record of my concerns before tomorrow as I'm likely to be arrested for my conduct in the morning. I'm not about to hurt anyone but there's something I need to do that will put me at odds with the Hospital and they'll call the Police.

My dad is in there and being forced to die....

trikey · 20th July 2021, 20:54

Record everything Mike, you can then look back and take notes shoud you have to.

Take care mate

Les4048 · 20th July 2021, 21:12

Flipping heck Mike, hope everything works out ok. Just stay safe

cat · 20th July 2021, 21:17

Take care and good luck.

SCP440 · 20th July 2021, 21:40

A friends daughter had a baby last year and she was told that it was unlikely to last the night due to a couple of problems. She was told that it would be best to '' let nature takes it course''. The following morning she was still alive and they started to intervene, she is now 15 months old an happy. She will need some minor opps as she grows up but is expected to live a proper life.

A full investigation was carried out and the midwife was disciplined but nothing more.

VVC-Geeza · 20th July 2021, 22:50

You will know what you have to do Mike.Just do whatever is necessary,he's your dad.

WillyHeckaslike · 21st July 2021, 00:08

I don't know the situation with your dad Mike but time stands still for no one. We know what is coming to us all one day yet it still shocks and causes mental turmoil when the medics take you to one side and quietly explain what you've been dreading about a loved one who is in their care in hospital. It can't be easy for the medics even though they will have to deal with these situations on a very regular if not a daily basis. I trust them and feel that they will have done their best for your dad. If it is the case that they are now talking end-of-life care they will want to continue to do their best for your dad for his remaining time. Please consider that he might be in the right place for this if it is so. They have the staff, the equipment and the medicine to make you dad as comfortable as possible - pressure pads/mattress, pain relief turning him in bed etc..

coolguy · 21st July 2021, 07:06

Everybody lauds the NHS - I don't. The number of mistakes, wrong diagnoses and sheer incompetence I have come across is staggering. I literally had to KIDNAP my mother to get her out of their clutches some years ago. She couldn't pass her mobility assessment, but it was affecting her health in other ways being in hospital (5 months over a Christmas). I waited for the inevitable move of wards, marched in and said "I have come to collect my mother" which I did before her notes had followed her. She lived happily at home for a further 6 years, dying in her bed just short of her 99th Birthday. I do understand your frustration, but please do not get arrested over this - that will help neither you or your father. My thoughts are with you.

Saga Lout · 23rd July 2021, 08:08

Almost one month ago I took my dad into the Hospital as his legs were a bit swollen and covered in Red blotches, on arrival at A+E the nurse commented that he was a bit jaundiced and distended in the abdominal area. He was then put on a ward for treatment and we heard nothing for days, no phone calls or contact of any kind from the Hospital to let us know what was happening. I complained to the patient liaison people and they were great, we found out that he'd been for numerous scans and tests but they didn't yet have an answer. On the seventh day we were told he had a blood clot that was holding blood flow to the liver and kidney area but, he was coming home the day after with blood thinning injections. I went to collect him and was shocked, his feet and lower legs were badly swollen and he could hardly walk, no explanation was offered as to why he was like that. My sister and mother went to the ward later that day to collect his medication, a doctor took my mother to one side and told her that there was a tumour in his liver that was pushing on the blood supply. In the following week at home he was going downhill and not eating anything, his abdominal area was just getting larger and his skin and eyes went very Yellow, we saw it with my brother last year so we knew what was happening.
There was an appointment the week after and I took him for that, the doctor told him that he has the tumour and they weren't going to do anything about it other than give him care. I questioned why he was sent home with obvious fluid retention and no medication to help with that, he was then prescribed water tablets over two weeks after presenting with that very problem. The water tablets did nothing and he was just getting more Yellow and fading away without eating, fluid was restricted to two litres per day in this heat. I phoned the liver team last Thursday to tell them that the water tablets were doing nothing and he needed an abdominal drain. The response was that they would give it another couple of days and then make a decision on the draining of the fluid build up. We waited Friday, Saturday, Sunday and on Monday this week I phoned again to say the issue was urgent, I was told to take him in on Tuesday morning and there would be an intervention to drain the fluid. On Tuesday afternoon it hadn't been started and the A+E doctor wasn't interested in getting the process started, I said the if they weren't going to do the draining I'd take him home, at that point it was inferred that he wasn't mentally able to make a choice to go home and, it was further inferred that if I tried to take him home they would section him under the mental health act to stop him leaving, all of this and still no treatment for the fluid build up. I told my mother and she said he must be brought home, if he's to die it'll be in his own bed. I took my mother to collect him on Wednesday morning and the doctor refused to release him, still not being treated but being stopped from leaving, the Hospital security were called to stop us entering the ward to see him and it escalated from there, a Hospital manager and ward Matron came to speak to us, they entered the ward and five minutes later came out to tell us his draining would be started at lunchtime, it didn't happen. I'm an SIA badge holder and the Hospital was pitting me against people I've worked with, the whole incident was recorded and it'll form part of legal action against the Hospital in the coming months. The treatment promised to my dad still hadn't been done yesterday and I went back alone to the Hospital, I didn't go to the ward, I went to the security office to voice my concerns about being put in the position I was in. I told them that my dad wasn't being treated and there was no legal reason for him to be there, I also said that I was ready to take my dad home and that there was a plan in place to remove him from his forced detention. The security manager was shocked at what I was telling him and, he went to the ward to check my story out, he asked them why they kept telling lies about my dad getting treatment and, he was told that there wasn't any legal reason for my dad being kept there. It was at that point when he told them that his team were not getting involved when we came to take him home, he apologised to me and told me to do what was best for my dad. This was yesterday morning, I'm told that my dads care was taken from that team yesterday morning and by late afternoon the draining process had been started. I don't have positive confirmation of that as yet but I'm fairly certain it's been started after weeks of lies and poor treatment. My dad is unwell and we understand he hasn't got a great deal of time left but, he has enough time to enjoy with the treatment plan being carried out as it should be, he might need the fluid draining fairly often but it wasn't a reason to hold him hostage until he was too weak to treat.

Update, my dad had the fluid drained last night, they removed a pint less than two gallons! no wonder he couldn't function or eat. I brought him home this afternoon and the difference is vast.

SCP440 · 23rd July 2021, 21:25

It is very easy to knock the NHS and I can understand why we do.

I had a friend from the USA over a couple of years ago to stay for a few weeks, while he was with us he cut his hand quite badly. I said I would run him down to the Casualty department to get it looked at, he declined and said he would be OK, anyway after several hours the bleeding had not stopped. I said again I would take him down to Casualty and he said he would but really cant afford it and could I lend him the money.

I explained to him that it was free and he was amazed and didn't believe me, anyway we popped down, had a 30 minute wait and they put a couple of stiches in it for him and they gave him a Tetanus jab and some pain killers. When we got back he could not believe it was free, he reckoned in the US that might have cost him nearly a Thousand Dollars. Apparently all hospitals in the US will ask for your credit card information before treating minor injuries.

20th July 2021, 20:39	#1
Saga Lout This is my second home MG ZT and Rover 75, Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Wigan Posts: 3,276 Thanks: 2,556 Thanked 2,685 Times in 1,037 Posts	I have a serious problem with the NHS. I'm in a sticky situation right now with my local Hospital, it's Wigan Royal Albert Edward Infirmary. I can't say too much tonight but I need to get a record of my concerns before tomorrow as I'm likely to be arrested for my conduct in the morning. I'm not about to hurt anyone but there's something I need to do that will put me at odds with the Hospital and they'll call the Police. My dad is in there and being forced to die....

20th July 2021, 20:54	#2
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,766 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	Record everything Mike, you can then look back and take notes shoud you have to. Take care mate __________________ Lest we forget..

20th July 2021, 22:50	#6
VVC-Geeza This is my second home 2005 Connoisseur SE 1.8 Turbo,2004 45 1.8 Connoisseur and my beloved 1998 VVC Coupe. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Derby. Posts: 8,758 Thanks: 2,022 Thanked 1,016 Times in 739 Posts	You will know what you have to do Mike.Just do whatever is necessary,he's your dad. __________________

23rd July 2021, 08:08	#9
Saga Lout This is my second home MG ZT and Rover 75, Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Wigan Posts: 3,276 Thanks: 2,556 Thanked 2,685 Times in 1,037 Posts	The Tale. Almost one month ago I took my dad into the Hospital as his legs were a bit swollen and covered in Red blotches, on arrival at A+E the nurse commented that he was a bit jaundiced and distended in the abdominal area. He was then put on a ward for treatment and we heard nothing for days, no phone calls or contact of any kind from the Hospital to let us know what was happening. I complained to the patient liaison people and they were great, we found out that he'd been for numerous scans and tests but they didn't yet have an answer. On the seventh day we were told he had a blood clot that was holding blood flow to the liver and kidney area but, he was coming home the day after with blood thinning injections. I went to collect him and was shocked, his feet and lower legs were badly swollen and he could hardly walk, no explanation was offered as to why he was like that. My sister and mother went to the ward later that day to collect his medication, a doctor took my mother to one side and told her that there was a tumour in his liver that was pushing on the blood supply. In the following week at home he was going downhill and not eating anything, his abdominal area was just getting larger and his skin and eyes went very Yellow, we saw it with my brother last year so we knew what was happening. There was an appointment the week after and I took him for that, the doctor told him that he has the tumour and they weren't going to do anything about it other than give him care. I questioned why he was sent home with obvious fluid retention and no medication to help with that, he was then prescribed water tablets over two weeks after presenting with that very problem. The water tablets did nothing and he was just getting more Yellow and fading away without eating, fluid was restricted to two litres per day in this heat. I phoned the liver team last Thursday to tell them that the water tablets were doing nothing and he needed an abdominal drain. The response was that they would give it another couple of days and then make a decision on the draining of the fluid build up. We waited Friday, Saturday, Sunday and on Monday this week I phoned again to say the issue was urgent, I was told to take him in on Tuesday morning and there would be an intervention to drain the fluid. On Tuesday afternoon it hadn't been started and the A+E doctor wasn't interested in getting the process started, I said the if they weren't going to do the draining I'd take him home, at that point it was inferred that he wasn't mentally able to make a choice to go home and, it was further inferred that if I tried to take him home they would section him under the mental health act to stop him leaving, all of this and still no treatment for the fluid build up. I told my mother and she said he must be brought home, if he's to die it'll be in his own bed. I took my mother to collect him on Wednesday morning and the doctor refused to release him, still not being treated but being stopped from leaving, the Hospital security were called to stop us entering the ward to see him and it escalated from there, a Hospital manager and ward Matron came to speak to us, they entered the ward and five minutes later came out to tell us his draining would be started at lunchtime, it didn't happen. I'm an SIA badge holder and the Hospital was pitting me against people I've worked with, the whole incident was recorded and it'll form part of legal action against the Hospital in the coming months. The treatment promised to my dad still hadn't been done yesterday and I went back alone to the Hospital, I didn't go to the ward, I went to the security office to voice my concerns about being put in the position I was in. I told them that my dad wasn't being treated and there was no legal reason for him to be there, I also said that I was ready to take my dad home and that there was a plan in place to remove him from his forced detention. The security manager was shocked at what I was telling him and, he went to the ward to check my story out, he asked them why they kept telling lies about my dad getting treatment and, he was told that there wasn't any legal reason for my dad being kept there. It was at that point when he told them that his team were not getting involved when we came to take him home, he apologised to me and told me to do what was best for my dad. This was yesterday morning, I'm told that my dads care was taken from that team yesterday morning and by late afternoon the draining process had been started. I don't have positive confirmation of that as yet but I'm fairly certain it's been started after weeks of lies and poor treatment. My dad is unwell and we understand he hasn't got a great deal of time left but, he has enough time to enjoy with the treatment plan being carried out as it should be, he might need the fluid draining fairly often but it wasn't a reason to hold him hostage until he was too weak to treat. Update, my dad had the fluid drained last night, they removed a pint less than two gallons! no wonder he couldn't function or eat. I brought him home this afternoon and the difference is vast. Last edited by Saga Lout; 24th July 2021 at 19:57..

20th July 2021, 21:12	#3
Les4048 This is my second home Rover 75 Tourer/ MG ZT-T 400 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Lhanbryde Posts: 3,278 Thanks: 2,627 Thanked 1,523 Times in 869 Posts	Flipping heck Mike, hope everything works out ok. Just stay safe

20th July 2021, 21:17	#4
cat Avid contributor Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Warrington Posts: 115 Thanks: 76 Thanked 35 Times in 32 Posts	Take care and good luck.

20th July 2021, 21:40	#5
SCP440 I really should get out more....... MG ZT-T 260 Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Witney Posts: 2,504 Thanks: 6 Thanked 910 Times in 571 Posts	A friends daughter had a baby last year and she was told that it was unlikely to last the night due to a couple of problems. She was told that it would be best to '' let nature takes it course''. The following morning she was still alive and they started to intervene, she is now 15 months old an happy. She will need some minor opps as she grows up but is expected to live a proper life. A full investigation was carried out and the midwife was disciplined but nothing more.

21st July 2021, 00:08	#7
WillyHeckaslike This is my second home Rovers 75 & 25 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Wearside Posts: 4,522 Thanks: 543 Thanked 709 Times in 511 Posts	I don't know the situation with your dad Mike but time stands still for no one. We know what is coming to us all one day yet it still shocks and causes mental turmoil when the medics take you to one side and quietly explain what you've been dreading about a loved one who is in their care in hospital. It can't be easy for the medics even though they will have to deal with these situations on a very regular if not a daily basis. I trust them and feel that they will have done their best for your dad. If it is the case that they are now talking end-of-life care they will want to continue to do their best for your dad for his remaining time. Please consider that he might be in the right place for this if it is so. They have the staff, the equipment and the medicine to make you dad as comfortable as possible - pressure pads/mattress, pain relief turning him in bed etc..

21st July 2021, 07:06	#8
coolguy Coolguy Rover 75 CDT Tourer Auto, Rover 75 2.0 Connoisseur Auto, MG ZT 2.5 Auto and MG ZT Cdti Auto (Monogra Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Finedon Posts: 1,897 Thanks: 933 Thanked 638 Times in 430 Posts	Everybody lauds the NHS - I don't. The number of mistakes, wrong diagnoses and sheer incompetence I have come across is staggering. I literally had to KIDNAP my mother to get her out of their clutches some years ago. She couldn't pass her mobility assessment, but it was affecting her health in other ways being in hospital (5 months over a Christmas). I waited for the inevitable move of wards, marched in and said "I have come to collect my mother" which I did before her notes had followed her. She lived happily at home for a further 6 years, dying in her bed just short of her 99th Birthday. I do understand your frustration, but please do not get arrested over this - that will help neither you or your father. My thoughts are with you.

23rd July 2021, 21:25	#10
SCP440 I really should get out more....... MG ZT-T 260 Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Witney Posts: 2,504 Thanks: 6 Thanked 910 Times in 571 Posts	It is very easy to knock the NHS and I can understand why we do. I had a friend from the USA over a couple of years ago to stay for a few weeks, while he was with us he cut his hand quite badly. I said I would run him down to the Casualty department to get it looked at, he declined and said he would be OK, anyway after several hours the bleeding had not stopped. I said again I would take him down to Casualty and he said he would but really cant afford it and could I lend him the money. I explained to him that it was free and he was amazed and didn't believe me, anyway we popped down, had a 30 minute wait and they put a couple of stiches in it for him and they gave him a Tetanus jab and some pain killers. When we got back he could not believe it was free, he reckoned in the US that might have cost him nearly a Thousand Dollars. Apparently all hospitals in the US will ask for your credit card information before treating minor injuries.