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Old 26th June 2022, 20:48   #141
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Originally Posted by Saga Lout View Post
It'll come down to money and taxation, all the freebies will go and it'll be a harsh new reality. There won't be a currency backed by the bank of England, that's already been said, what will the value of a new currency be worth? It'll depend on economics and all the dreams of affluence will come crashing down. The services you currently have will be cut as Westminster money is stopped, that'll cause hardship on a massive scale and unemployment will rise, who will fund your social system? The facts are simple, Scotland doesn't make enough money to sustain itself as it is now, a bare bones economy will follow a leave vote and any dreams of joining the EU, in the wind. There will be many who simply stop trading with Scotland, it won't be worth the hassle of passports and border checks for trucks and trains, what price a train ticket between London and Glasgow, what % will be the Scottish fee be, who will check the passports? It's been made quite clear that if Scotland leaves they'll be left to it. See how popular she is then.
So all Westminster has to do is get that clear message across but do it in a way which does not get everyones backs up.
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Old 26th June 2022, 21:07   #142
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Ah well, there goes the local property market for a start. And that's even before a vote is cast. Who's going to defend the outer Isles?
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Old 26th June 2022, 21:38   #143
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The pensions row will emerge soon. As i understand it, state pensions paid today are to fund the retired state pensions paid currently. Not paid now for a future date. Its a benefit ,as are tax credits , thus will stop immediately. Would people want to pay from their wages the pensions for scots each week , and dont foget vise versa. This is only the way it is calculated, and the state owes you not a pot of money , to be redeemed at a later stage , as with private pensions. My goodness , the more you look into this mess the worse it becomes . This is a 50 year project with help from the union , and its sterling , but at least Moldova will be elevated by at least one economical position if scotland does join the E.U ....
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Old 26th June 2022, 22:31   #144
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I understand that there is more information being published on Tuesday by the SNP on the details of any future independent Scotland.

This will make interesting reading that's for sure.

With regards to the state pension, I believe the similarity has been made with people who emigrate. They still get a UK pension, although I'm not sure of the details and mechanics of how it works.

We clearly have two opposing political sides here who have little, if any, respect for one another. If it goes wrong each will blame the other and the gulf will grow ever wider.

At present it ain't going well for anyone.
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Old 27th June 2022, 07:46   #145
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record unemployment and hard times ahead ... everyone is patriotic but this is a massive price thats going to be put onto the heads of many unsuspecting voters. ... the last time scotland was independent , they bankrupted themselves with overseas investment that did not pay off. cap in hand to join the union and were all still here. .. scotland was never forced into joining in the first place , as most believe , but i think it it will be a big mistake to opt out. theres too much water under the bridge now , and it will take many many years to recover. still i wont be around to tell them "i told you so " ....
1707...that’s 315 years ago Scotland was last an Independent Sovereign Country, a great deal has changed but you should perhaps read your history books a bit more rather than believe English Nationalist Propaganda.
Just remember, It’s Scotland’s Oil, Gas, Water, Massive food and drinks sector with huge worldwide exports, Wind and Tidal Green Energy, all belong to Scotland, the thought should really be, if England is so All Powerful and constantly “Subsidising” Scotland, why doesn’t England want its independence, I have many family and friends in England, they’ll still be there when Scotland breaks away from a Westminster Government that will NEVER have Scottish interests at heart.

Time for Scotland to stop being bled dry by Westminster, no passports required by the way as Scotland would of course be in the Common Travel Area. The idea that the rest of the UK wouldn’t want to keep trading with Scotland is for the birds, Scotland would very much have the upper hand at the negotiating table, and for those saying Now is not the time, it’s Never going to be the time for Westminster or England, but it’s Scotland’s choice, nobody else’s.

Then of course Scotland would be heading back into the EU as an Independent country, just like the other 27 Independent countries, only this time Scotland would be at the table, not being fed crumbs by a government in England that Scotland never votes for, how smaller would Little Britain look with England burning bridges more and more, ripping up International Laws, deporting migrants to countries 4000 miles away, jeez, Scottish Independence can’t come soon enough.

It’s Scotlands choice, we are a Sovereign people.
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Old 27th June 2022, 09:28   #146
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Well you have to hand it to the wee hen. She's managed to get it all started again. Barbed conflict is her second nature apparently. The atmosphere now is very different to the last time. Not exactly charming is she.

Do I remember someone once saying it was all over for several years? How long ago was that? What a shame. There is a huge amount of mutual good relations between ordinary people on both sides of the border and now it seems it's gone all acid. Where's the gain when everybody loses. The wrong fight being fought never cured any conflict.
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Old 27th June 2022, 09:30   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobD75Rover View Post
1707...that’s 315 years ago Scotland was last an Independent Sovereign Country, a great deal has changed but you should perhaps read your history books a bit more rather than believe English Nationalist Propaganda.
Just remember, It’s Scotland’s Oil, Gas, Water, Massive food and drinks sector with huge worldwide exports, Wind and Tidal Green Energy, all belong to Scotland, the thought should really be, if England is so All Powerful and constantly “Subsidising” Scotland, why doesn’t England want its independence, I have many family and friends in England, they’ll still be there when Scotland breaks away from a Westminster Government that will NEVER have Scottish interests at heart.

Time for Scotland to stop being bled dry by Westminster, no passports required by the way as Scotland would of course be in the Common Travel Area. The idea that the rest of the UK wouldn’t want to keep trading with Scotland is for the birds, Scotland would very much have the upper hand at the negotiating table, and for those saying Now is not the time, it’s Never going to be the time for Westminster or England, but it’s Scotland’s choice, nobody else’s.

Then of course Scotland would be heading back into the EU as an Independent country, just like the other 27 Independent countries, only this time Scotland would be at the table, not being fed crumbs by a government in England that Scotland never votes for, how smaller would Little Britain look with England burning bridges more and more, ripping up International Laws, deporting migrants to countries 4000 miles away, jeez, Scottish Independence can’t come soon enough.

It’s Scotlands choice, we are a Sovereign people.

Sturgeon will get her wish if she can persuade the Scots that the figures add up which is defintely not as clear cut as you would suggest. Back in 2014 they were marginal at best. Since then oil production is a quarter of what it was and now she is in bed with the Greens it will only reduce further.
Do not forget that we will no longer give you money under the Barnett formula and you have to pay a substantial annual levy to the EU.
You might be at the EU table with what is likely to be 30 other members so the 30:1 ratio is not much difference to what the SDP have at Westminster so I am not sure how much bigger the crumbs will be.

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Old 27th June 2022, 11:23   #148
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The polls still show it too close to call, so whatever happens half the country will not be happy. Whilst the promises any politician makes are not worth the paper they are written on. They will tell us what we want to hear and when it goes wrong off-load the blame onto someone else.

Even the electorate.
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Old 27th June 2022, 13:13   #149
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I know Stormont isn't operating just now but there has been little to nothing at all from either them or the Welsh Assembly on this subject.

Is there any feedback from regional channels/papers that might throw some light other than the constant stream of invective from just the one source? We are after all a combination of four distinctly separate traditions, each with its own particular flavour and history. Seems rather exclusionary at the moment.

The discussions so far (elsewhere of course) have been almost exclusively between two members of this blessed Isle. Maybe a wee bit of balance might be enlightening as to the feelings of the other two very interested, and just as important, partners. Sometimes the bigger picture helps with focus.
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Old 27th June 2022, 14:54   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saga Lout View Post
It'll come down to money and taxation, all the freebies will go and it'll be a harsh new reality. There won't be a currency backed by the bank of England, that's already been said, what will the value of a new currency be worth? It'll depend on economics and all the dreams of affluence will come crashing down. The services you currently have will be cut as Westminster money is stopped, that'll cause hardship on a massive scale and unemployment will rise, who will fund your social system? The facts are simple, Scotland doesn't make enough money to sustain itself as it is now, a bare bones economy will follow a leave vote and any dreams of joining the EU, in the wind. There will be many who simply stop trading with Scotland, it won't be worth the hassle of passports and border checks for trucks and trains, what price a train ticket between London and Glasgow, what % will be the Scottish fee be, who will check the passports? It's been made quite clear that if Scotland leaves they'll be left to it. See how popular she is then.
And if they vote to leave then they should be left to it, that's what it's about. Why should the rest of the UK provide funds if they are no longer contributing to the pot?

And if their own economy is really as bad as you say, then I'd be glad if they left, if they're really taking out that much more from the UK pot than they are contributing... Surely taxes for the remains of the UK could then be lower if we're not propping them up.

Let them get on with it if that's what they want. I know I'd have been annoyed if my vote to leave the EU had then been hampered by the EU making things as difficult as possible... Oh, wait...

What I'll find more interesting is, will they still have the Queen and Royal family, or will it be a full break away cutting all ties. As that could be a sticky point if they want to keep the Royal family, they'll still have to contribute a certain amount to them.
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