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Old 15th April 2022, 10:18   #71
lida
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Hello v-man. Thank you for your post. I am calling it "running hot".

I monitored my car for a week following original repairs, and have told service manager that it is NOT normal for a Rover 75 in the cool weather we had in March to be showing engine coolant temps between 102-111. My short 2½ mile trip from my house to Tesco should not cause fan speed 1 to come on either.

He got aggressive with me and asked me how I knew about the temps. I informed him that I was accessing the onboard diagnostic. He then asked how I was accessing that (I don't think he believed me, or he didnt know himself).

Then, of course, he and the sales manage had to put a story together and they came up with the following. There is a disparity between engine temp and coolant temp and the diagnostic that I use is not reliable. It goes on .........

In his efforts to convince me otherwise, the service manager told me that he had himself acquired a new car last year and that during his 2½ mile journeys his fan also came on! The lengths & depths the idiot went to to convince me that everything is A-OK are laughable.

Last edited by lida; 15th April 2022 at 10:23..
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Old 15th April 2022, 16:18   #72
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Would you like me to come down and have a technical chat with the garage while you are present?

It seems to me they are hoping you will just let this go!!
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Old 15th April 2022, 17:50   #73
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Originally Posted by trikey View Post
Would you like me to come down and have a technical chat with the garage while you are present?

It seems to me they are hoping you will just let this go!!
I don't think you'd have much success there as from all accounts they seem to be very ignorant.

( not in an abusive way. They just lack the knowledge required to come up with a correct assessment. )---
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Old 15th April 2022, 18:44   #74
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Would you like me to come down and have a technical chat with the garage while you are present?

It seems to me they are hoping you will just let this go!!

You could demonstrate how to use a T4.


They would probably not comprehend what you would be talking to them about as they don't seem to know much. I assume they are like most "garages" now and employ fitters, rather than mechanics.


I have the same train of thought, the "we know what we are talking about, the customer doesn't" attitude.
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Old 16th April 2022, 08:45   #75
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Thank you so much for your offer, Trikey, most generous - but as others have said they would just send us on our way.

They would not allow you to speak to the mechanic, man to man, nor will you get past their wall of having been successfully in business for over 120 years - and, the most damning - she won't allow us to change the sensor!

So after road tests (which I now believe were never done) and telling me I was wrong about the temp being too high, an I.P. has informed them belatedly that a sensor is faulty. Why didnt the road test on same morning confirm excessive temp? There is nothing consistent in what they say because they are liars.
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Old 16th April 2022, 09:04   #76
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Would you like me to come down and have a technical chat with the garage while you are present?
That's extremely generous of you Andy, particularly as it would be a 300 mile round trip for you.

Unfortunately it would be a waste of your time and money and would result in deep frustration but perhaps also a revelation of how bad an ex-MG Rover main dealer can be.

The other difficulty is that the current Service Manager, who clearly is incompetent in the rôle, is a relative (probably son) of the Managing Director.

Simon
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Old 22nd April 2022, 09:26   #77
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Look how clever one of our members is - KAISER in S.Africa. He designed and arranged production of a metal housing for the thermostat, instead of buying standard plastic. Available in the UK too.

https://www.dmgrs.co.uk/products/kai...32798608818312

Last edited by lida; 22nd April 2022 at 09:30..
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Old 28th April 2022, 15:28   #78
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I received reply from MD of the NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- garage I took my KV6 to, and who left me with a car that seems to be running hot. In real time via the odometer, I can see the temps ranging from 96 upwards. (The max I've reached is 111°C. Fans come on A-OK as they should, but the point is no fan should come on after a 2½ mile journey in this cool weather.

Her letter says: "Thank you for your letter, having now investigated the matter fully with all the relevant staff, we are satisfied the work that has been carried out to your vehicle has not been detrimental. As previously advised to rectify the cooling fan cutting in too early, we can only suggest that the temperature sensor is replaced at a cost of £66.43 including non-manufacturers parts (we cann procure Rover parts), labour and VAT. Unfortunately, if this does not rectify the issue we would suggest that you return the vehicle to your previous garage tht have been maintaining the vehicle and who you have built a relationship with."

What a prattish letter. Her son, the service manager, was from day 1 gratuitously rude and sarcastic to me and, quite frankly, that's when I should have collected the car without works being done. I sent her a long letter with some great technical points (submitted by SD1too) and she hasnt addressed any of them. And, for obvious reasons no one on her staff is going to say anything that supports my version of the truth.

Any suggestions please as to how to reply? I want my reply to be short & sweet but punchy. Short replies like hers are essentially a F**k You, so I want to return the compliment. I have actually drafted something already.

Last edited by lida; 28th April 2022 at 15:32..
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Old 3rd May 2022, 16:01   #79
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Default The story continues ...

I asked Lida to bring her car over to me this afternoon so that I could check the garage's claim that the coolant temperature sensor is over-reading and that consequently there is nothing wrong with the cooling system.

We correlated the displayed temperature and resistance of the sensor with the data in RAVE and they all matched. There was no error of the magnitude declared by the garage.

Strangely the bottom radiator hose was hot today, as it should be (previously it's been tepid). At Lida's last visit I refilled and bled the cooling system, leaving the level in the expansion tank at 'max'. Today, once again, the level had risen to the neck of the tank. I agree with Trikey that normally this is evidence of an air lock. However, the garage said that vacuum equipment had been used when refilling and I have subsequently drained, bled and refilled on two further occasions, so if it is an airlock it's the most stubborn I have ever encountered.

Although there is no reason to suspect the expansion tank cap, we decided to test drive Lida's car with my cap fitted. We began on local residential roads at 20 mph when the temperature remained in the low nineties. However, as soon as speed was increased and sustained at 30 mph on an 'A' road, the reading rose quite quickly to 99˚. As we continued it nudged above 100˚ and most strange of all, when returning to 20 mph over speed humps it was up to 107˚ then rapidly reducing to 99˚ in a matter of seconds, more quickly than fan action would achieve.
This is the same behaviour that Lida's observed with her own expansion cap fitted so we can eliminate that as a cause.

I learnt today that the garage obtained the replacement thermostat and pipes from a Land Rover parts supplier.

Simon
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Old 3rd May 2022, 16:40   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
I asked Lida to bring her car over to me this afternoon so that I could check the garage's claim that the coolant temperature sensor is over-reading and that consequently there is nothing wrong with the cooling system.

We correlated the displayed temperature and resistance of the sensor with the data in RAVE and they all matched. There was no error of the magnitude declared by the garage.

Strangely the bottom radiator hose was hot today, as it should be (previously it's been tepid). At Lida's last visit I refilled and bled the cooling system, leaving the level in the expansion tank at 'max'. Today, once again, the level had risen to the neck of the tank. I agree with Trikey that normally this is evidence of an air lock. However, the garage said that vacuum equipment had been used when refilling and I have subsequently drained, bled and refilled on two further occasions, so if it is an airlock it's the most stubborn I have ever encountered.

Although there is no reason to suspect the expansion tank cap, we decided to test drive Lida's car with my cap fitted. We began on local residential roads at 20 mph when the temperature remained in the low nineties. However, as soon as speed was increased and sustained at 30 mph on an 'A' road, the reading rose quite quickly to 99˚. As we continued it nudged above 100˚ and most strange of all, when returning to 20 mph over speed humps it was up to 107˚ then rapidly reducing to 99˚ in a matter of seconds, more quickly than fan action would achieve.
This is the same behaviour that Lida's observed with her own expansion cap fitted so we can eliminate that as a cause.

I learnt today that the garage obtained the replacement thermostat and pipes from a Land Rover parts supplier.

Simon
I'm glad you are seeing this through, Simon. Not surprised, glad. I don't know if the offending (and offensive) garage was ever named, but I can't imagine why it wouldn't be. I'm sure other owners would like to know who to avoid.

So, where does today's results lead? Faulty thermostat? Maybe intermittently or sometimes to a different degree? Oops, I didn't mean to be punny! Maybe a physical restriction that affects how much it actually opens - burrs on the centre pin, or something?

Cheers,
Glenn
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