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Old 9th December 2018, 18:50   #11
SideValve
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Next question is where is all the generating capacity is coming from?
Currently we have very little wind or solar power and insufficient nuclear. We don't own our own power stations or national grid and plan to import power from France and Norway. We barely have enough power to cope when everyone turns on the kettles after watching east enders.
We burn an enormous amount of petrol and have bought progressively bigger and heavier cars. Imagine if every car you saw on the road needed charging every evening. At present we couldn't begin to cope and nothing in our plans suggest we will be able to cope in the foreseeable future.
I reckon there are four answers. 1. We start building power stations like never before (wind, wave, solar, nuclear, coal whatever - just get them built) 2. We embrace rationing, you get x kilowatts per month, what you do with it is your choice. 3. its rationed by price, the laws of supply & demand operate and electricity goes from being a fraction of the price of petrol to being equivalent. 4. We get used to traveling far less and what traveling we do is in much more efficient vehicles (tiny utility pods for short-range & buses/trams/trains for everything else).
Which do we reckon?
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Old 9th December 2018, 19:54   #12
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Originally Posted by SideValve View Post
Next question is where is all the generating capacity is coming from?
Currently we have very little wind or solar power and insufficient nuclear. We don't own our own power stations or national grid and plan to import power from France and Norway. We barely have enough power to cope when everyone turns on the kettles after watching east enders.
We burn an enormous amount of petrol and have bought progressively bigger and heavier cars. Imagine if every car you saw on the road needed charging every evening. At present we couldn't begin to cope and nothing in our plans suggest we will be able to cope in the foreseeable future.
I reckon there are four answers. 1. We start building power stations like never before (wind, wave, solar, nuclear, coal whatever - just get them built) 2. We embrace rationing, you get x kilowatts per month, what you do with it is your choice. 3. its rationed by price, the laws of supply & demand operate and electricity goes from being a fraction of the price of petrol to being equivalent. 4. We get used to traveling far less and what traveling we do is in much more efficient vehicles (tiny utility pods for short-range & buses/trams/trains for everything else).
Which do we reckon?
Are you one of those eco warriors? Depends on how much money you have. Rationing? Had enough of that 1945 to the fifties. Let’s just have the rich in cars. Sorry, I disagree with you.
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Old 9th December 2018, 19:55   #13
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No. 4 has the best? outcome for the planet and Government I think but not perhaps what most of us would want. Travelling distances to work for the general population only started in the Edwardian age and that was mostly office workers, the bulk of workers lived very close to their works/factories/farms etc and this continued to be the case until after WW2. I as others have stated think we will go electric but think it will take a lot longer than some have forcast. Chris S.
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Old 9th December 2018, 20:07   #14
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Originally Posted by Jim Jamieson View Post
Whilst I agree electric cars are going to be the car of the future, one thing that doesn’t get mentioned is the servicing of these electric cars.

Auto Express highlight this from figures supplied by IMI Institute of the Motor Industry that there is a serious shortfall in qualified mechanics to carry out this work. The figures are quite shocking as they say only 3% are qualified.

I can foresee repair work being held up and costs rocketing way above that of current mainstream dealerships.

Food for thought !
I’m not sure I agree with just 3% of techs being qualified but it won’t be a high figure. There are no rules that I’m aware off that garages have to have an EV qualified tech, however, most manufacturers that have hybrid or EV models will dictate that one of the standards for its dealer network will be that they have at least 1 EV trained tech. The brand I work on state that the highest trained tech in each of its dealers must complete and pass the IMI qualification as part of dealer standards.
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Old 9th December 2018, 20:10   #15
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Yep, I think the future lies in walking :¬)
Incidentally, just been looking at BPs review of energy reserves.
Oil = 50 years
Lithium & Cobalt = 10 to 15 years (and increased in price by 37% last year)
Coal = 130 years
So maybe steam cars are the answer :¬)


https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/en...ull-report.pdf
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Old 9th December 2018, 20:15   #16
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So maybe steam cars are the answer :¬)
That's us 1.8 owners winning then
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Old 9th December 2018, 20:21   #17
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http://fes.nationalgrid.com/insights...tric-vehicles/

Here's a link from the National Grid, it covers some of the issues around charging at home and away.
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Old 9th December 2018, 20:26   #18
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http://fes.nationalgrid.com/insights...media-reports/

Here's another one about the power needed from the grid. They think about another 5gw of demand in about 30 years.
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Old 9th December 2018, 20:54   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SideValve View Post
Yep, I think the future lies in walking :¬)
Incidentally, just been looking at BPs review of energy reserves.
Oil = 50 years
Lithium & Cobalt = 10 to 15 years (and increased in price by 37% last year)
Coal = 130 years
So maybe steam cars are the answer :¬)
Yea steam all the way
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Old 10th December 2018, 23:01   #20
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Before we write off fossil fuels may I suggest we look at Methane hydrate. It’s an interesting compound of a methane molecule trapped within a lattice of frozen water molecules.

It’s also known as the “ice that burns”. And the planet has huge reserves of the stuff.

Whilst exact estimates of the energy reserves of this compound are difficult to quantify (they keep finding more reserves) an interesting fact is that most estimates put reserves at larger than all the oil, natural gas and coal reserves of the planet, both used and unused.

China in particular is developing extraction methods and it is thought that China’s longer term plan is to build the vast numbers of coal fired power stations that they are doing (their “commitment” to the Paris agreement was only ever for China to “peak” its emissions by the mid 2030’s - certainly not to reduce emissions - we may not like him but Trump does have a point here) in order to convert them to run in the future on the natural gas available from their huge reserves of methane hydrate. So build them now to run on dirty coal - then in the future run them on the far ‘cleaner’ methane derived fuel.

It will also be easy to get an ICE in a vehicle to run on such natural gas. I have run a number of vehicles on LPG - and Propane is (the main constituent of LPG) is easily made from three methane molecules.

Such technology exists now of course. What does not exist now is the technology to extract the methane from the methane hydrate reserves on the sea floor where it is the monumental pressure of water that both forms the ice lattice that traps the methane and stops it bubbling off.

But the indications are that many countries are working on it. China and the US especially.
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