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Old 24th May 2020, 15:06   #21
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I will try to stay safe, but do not want to challenge the ability of the NHS. Any government will get criticized, but it would be sheer stupidity to put one's head above the parapet shouting that it's "all clear", when one has no defences. Stay safe, be wary, oh, can't say that as I'm not a Government Minister.
What makes you think you will challenge the ability of the NHS Fred? I must not be in a minority in thinking this whole affair has been blown out of proportion?

At what point does the "treatment" become much more destructive than the disease??

And if you believe the purported infection rates that were modelled by certain epidemiologists, then the entire world population has already been exposed to this virus several times over.

I'm sorry, but I simply do not believe the price we are currently being asked to pay is either proportional to the risk, nor conducive to the health of the general population as a whole, when you factor in other considerations than simply the control of covid-19.

And to what end I wonder, this is quite likely never to have an effective vaccine produced, and the current restrictions are based upon one being sought before life can return to some sort of normality.

There are far greater things in life to be worried about, and I for one do not accept the doom mongers predictions of total world devastation at the hand of this virus.

The sooner the nettle is grasped, and the population of the world wake up to the fact they are being had, the better we will be equipped to deal with living with covid, as I expect we will be doing for the foreseeable future.

In summing up, there is no "After Covid19", simply making the best fist of it, before it becomes the worst man made catastrophe of recent times.

Brian
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Old 24th May 2020, 17:35   #22
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I certainly don't think we will be rid of it, but I do hope that they come up with a vaccine, and yes, there are many variations.

I volunteered for vaccine research but they finally decided I live beyond the boundary of their area.

I also realize that there are many other things that are a health threat, as we are witness to at Heathrow with the constant arrival of other dodgy illnesses, which there are many precautions in place to deal with.

I still think that one should be very wary of the transmission of this virus. Luckily for me I have not witnessed it directly, but am aware of areas where there have been several losses within a small group.

I am also convinced that the restriction and precautions are like a valve, and that there will be further resurgences, at a rate that those involved can cope with.
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Old 25th May 2020, 06:27   #23
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It's a lifetime ambition of mine to see a wild tiger.
I've been to India once. to a santuary called Sariska but sadly no sightings.Even so what an experience when the jeep stops in the middle of the jungle and all you can hear is animal calls.I will be back for sure.
My plan at the moment is to fly to india, probably Kolkata then train through the Bangladesh border. We will then visit the Sundarbans wildlife area. I prefer to book a wildlife trip when we reach the area as prices are higher the further away from the venue you book. I prefer to put my money in locals pockets rather than big business whenever possible. We will be very lucky to see a tiger, everyone sees a tiger footprint. After that I'm after river and train journeys and trying to stay off the beaten track. Will exit Bangladesh to NE india, probably to Tripura, then take a flight to Mizoram state as we missed it out on our last trip. Not sure if we will continue on to Myanmar, we were there about 8 years ago and I'm not sure my wife will return as she's already ticked it off! I would think Bangladesh and Mizoram will be sufficient for a 5 week tour.

To anyone thinking about having an adventure off the normal tourist path, I would say go for it. We've never had a bad moment in all our backpacking trips, you just need to act sensibly and take local advice. The gov uk travel advice is often over cautious. We all need to focus in on having good times in the future, to see us through the current situation.
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Old 25th May 2020, 07:12   #24
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My plan at the moment is to fly to india, probably Kolkata then train through the Bangladesh border. We will then visit the Sundarbans wildlife area. I prefer to book a wildlife trip when we reach the area as prices are higher the further away from the venue you book. I prefer to put my money in locals pockets rather than big business whenever possible. We will be very lucky to see a tiger, everyone sees a tiger footprint. After that I'm after river and train journeys and trying to stay off the beaten track. Will exit Bangladesh to NE india, probably to Tripura, then take a flight to Mizoram state as we missed it out on our last trip. Not sure if we will continue on to Myanmar, we were there about 8 years ago and I'm not sure my wife will return as she's already ticked it off! I would think Bangladesh and Mizoram will be sufficient for a 5 week tour.

To anyone thinking about having an adventure off the normal tourist path, I would say go for it. We've never had a bad moment in all our backpacking trips, you just need to act sensibly and take local advice. The gov uk travel advice is often over cautious. We all need to focus in on having good times in the future, to see us through the current situation.
I have been to India 4 times through work but never managed to get outside of the cities. It’s a fascinating country and apart from the corruption, I felt safe.
Have a great trip.
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Old 25th May 2020, 07:41   #25
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I certainly don't think we will be rid of it, but I do hope that they come up with a vaccine, and yes, there are many variations.

I volunteered for vaccine research but they finally decided I live beyond the boundary of their area.

I also realize that there are many other things that are a health threat, as we are witness to at Heathrow with the constant arrival of other dodgy illnesses, which there are many precautions in place to deal with.

I still think that one should be very wary of the transmission of this virus. Luckily for me I have not witnessed it directly, but am aware of areas where there have been several losses within a small group.

I am also convinced that the restriction and precautions are like a valve, and that there will be further resurgences, at a rate that those involved can cope with.
As you know Fred, I worked in the NHS for 30 plus years. For most of that time we never found a vaccine for HIV and the virus killed millions globally. With educational models teaching the public about the virus, having blood screened for transfusions and peeps practicing safe sex, those infected are living longer and lives have been saved through these measures, it’s not the death sentence it used to be. As a result people have had to learn to live with it.

Until a free and effective vaccine is found for Covid-19, its going to be the same for the world over, having to live with it.

I wonder what giving the all clear means?
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Old 25th May 2020, 07:48   #26
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Originally Posted by marinabrian View Post
What makes you think you will challenge the ability of the NHS Fred? I must not be in a minority in thinking this whole affair has been blown out of proportion?

At what point does the "treatment" become much more destructive than the disease??

And if you believe the purported infection rates that were modelled by certain epidemiologists, then the entire world population has already been exposed to this virus several times over.

I'm sorry, but I simply do not believe the price we are currently being asked to pay is either proportional to the risk, nor conducive to the health of the general population as a whole, when you factor in other considerations than simply the control of covid-19.

And to what end I wonder, this is quite likely never to have an effective vaccine produced, and the current restrictions are based upon one being sought before life can return to some sort of normality.

There are far greater things in life to be worried about, and I for one do not accept the doom mongers predictions of total world devastation at the hand of this virus.

The sooner the nettle is grasped, and the population of the world wake up to the fact they are being had, the better we will be equipped to deal with living with covid, as I expect we will be doing for the foreseeable future.

In summing up, there is no "After Covid19", simply making the best fist of it, before it becomes the worst man made catastrophe of recent times.

Brian

I wonder if those that have spent time in hospital or their families and friends or the families and friends of those that have died would agree with you.

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Old 25th May 2020, 10:56   #27
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Originally Posted by marinabrian View Post
What makes you think you will challenge the ability of the NHS Fred? I must not be in a minority in thinking this whole affair has been blown out of proportion?

At what point does the "treatment" become much more destructive than the disease??

And if you believe the purported infection rates that were modelled by certain epidemiologists, then the entire world population has already been exposed to this virus several times over.

I'm sorry, but I simply do not believe the price we are currently being asked to pay is either proportional to the risk, nor conducive to the health of the general population as a whole, when you factor in other considerations than simply the control of covid-19.

And to what end I wonder, this is quite likely never to have an effective vaccine produced, and the current restrictions are based upon one being sought before life can return to some sort of normality.

There are far greater things in life to be worried about, and I for one do not accept the doom mongers predictions of total world devastation at the hand of this virus.

The sooner the nettle is grasped, and the population of the world wake up to the fact they are being had, the better we will be equipped to deal with living with covid, as I expect we will be doing for the foreseeable future.

In summing up, there is no "After Covid19", simply making the best fist of it, before it becomes the worst man made catastrophe of recent times.

Brian
Brian have you had anybody close to you who has had this or even died? A friends of my wife's is still ill after 6 weeks and I know of a young women who died. My wife's friend is so weak she is sleeping on the sofa as she cant get up stairs to bed and has not even got the energy or breath to make a phone call.

We can all hope we either don't get this terrible virus or if we do we get it in a mild form but the odds are not good. Put it like this if they are a 100 Smarties on a table and you know one is full of arsenic would you have one? Even if it was a 2000 Smarties personally I would not be going near any of them , as of today one in 1833 of the UK population has died from this. Yes a lot of them are older and/or with pre existing health problems but my wife's friend is 50 years old as fit as a fiddle, does not smoke and has no health problems.
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Old 25th May 2020, 13:45   #28
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Brian have you had anybody close to you who has had this or even died? A friends of my wife's is still ill after 6 weeks and I know of a young women who died. My wife's friend is so weak she is sleeping on the sofa as she cant get up stairs to bed and has not even got the energy or breath to make a phone call.

We can all hope we either don't get this terrible virus or if we do we get it in a mild form but the odds are not good. Put it like this if they are a 100 Smarties on a table and you know one is full of arsenic would you have one? Even if it was a 2000 Smarties personally I would not be going near any of them , as of today one in 1833 of the UK population has died from this. Yes a lot of them are older and/or with pre existing health problems but my wife's friend is 50 years old as fit as a fiddle, does not smoke and has no health problems.
How close would you like the experience to be I wonder Steve?, I have been personally infected with Covid-19, as has my wife and also my youngest daughter, both myself and my wife confirmed with testing.

I can hand on heart say I have had colds with worse symptoms, for me they consisted of a sore throat for a couple of days, and a running nose similar to hayfever, and the worst symptom my wife has experienced is the loss of taste and smell which is returning slowly.


I am taking part in a study into the use of plasma derived from recovered Covid positive patients on Wednesday of this week, where I donate a pint of blood, and a sample of blood is sent for antibody testing, with a view to it being used in the treatment of people that are experiencing adverse reactions to the virus.

Both myself and my wife are in our early fifties, and apart from mild hypertension in the case of my wife, and myself being somewhat overweight no preexisting conditions.

Neither smoke, drink in moderation, and in terms of exercise walking the dog is about as strenuous as it gets.

The infectious diseases nurse who took the original test, was very reassuring that 98% of people infected are either asymptomatic or display only mild symptoms, and of the other 2% who have an adverse reaction to the virus, 80% go on to make a full recovery.

Of course anyone who has lost a loved one, or is badly affected by this is going to have a different perspective, but in light of that, I'm going to give you another statistic.........

Cancer diagnosis has currently dropped to 3% of pre lockdown numbers, so does than mean there has been a 97% drop in actual cases.

Of course the answer is no, so how do you explain to the family of the person who ends up with stage 4 cancer that if they had been treated earlier they would have gone on to make a full recovery??

This is exactly the scenario we're facing, my wife is in the front line, more so now that they have temporarily recommissioned her ward as an area for the care of Covid-19 positive patients.

I'm not being flippant about this, if people genuinely feel that they would like to resume life in some form or another, accepting that they are taking a risk, whether real or perceived, then that should be their choice and not that of the state.

Conversely if a person feels themselves to be genuinely at risk, or are for valid medical reasons known to be at risk, then they shouldn't be forced to participate in anything that exacerbates that risk.

Now there you have it from the perspective of someone who has been infected with Covid-19 and has lived to tell the tale

Brian
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Old 25th May 2020, 19:13   #29
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I flipping well concur
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Old 25th May 2020, 19:44   #30
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Not so much a case of being forced to do take part in something which exacerbates the risk, some (most) folks may have no choice. As one of those who is classed as extremely vulnerable I have been under house arrest for 8 weeks now with another 4 to go. Thankfully retired so no work to worry about, even if I was I know that my former employer would instruct me to stay at home and keep me on full pay. However sooner or later I would have been expected to return, now that would be interesting.

My wife's cancer treatment has been affected, sooner or later she will have to go back to hospital to continue her treatment and we will both have to venture back into the wider world.

Those not affected too much will be fine; those of use who may become seriously affected will have some difficult decisions to make. Maybe even life threatening ones.

One thing for certain there will be a new normal.
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