Virus spread

[COLVERT]

Quote--Wraymond.

In fact, the vaxxed population is now the primary source of infection and already becoming the sector to be avoided by the healthy. Infecting those who have so far avoided being affected because either they are immune or have avoided contact under their own behaviour or sheer good luck is hardly saintly.
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Do you mean the vaxxed section that have been infected and not just vaccinated ??________

[YHT]

Irrespective of all that, do you not believe that we have a moral and social duty to be vaccinated in order to give those around us a feeling of security at a difficult time?[/QUOTE]

Yes. I am all for vaccination (and have had 2 jabs, booster due soon). The numbers who need hospitalization seems to have reduced by 80% despite the number of +ve tests. Deaths also seem to have reduced by an even greater proportion (using the BBC web site data). There may be reasons other that the Jab (i.e. all the frail or most susceptible have fallen off the twig). The data readily available seems to be a bit mixed but on the face of it jabs seem to be a "Good Thing". Having said that I am reluctant to go for a flu or pneumonia jab; one has to die of something and don't want an extended period of time sitting on a plastic chair dribbling away my days in a "retirement" home.

[wraymond]

Thanks Jon, my attempts at avoiding upsetting some advocates inadvertently has made me ultra-cautious! My intention was a reference to the media and especially government spin doctors’ treatment of vaccination as a confirmation of sainthood and those not accepting such propaganda as a biblical truth getting, er, vexed (!).

In my case I accept I am somewhat isolated (in the old sense) in that the last time I can remember I was infected with anything to do with public transmission was Mumps in 1945.

As a Liverpudlian infant in what is quaintly now called high density housing, everybody was at risk in the real sense. Since then, nothing. No vaxxes, no diseases, no inoculations, no infections. Once and once only a trial, with a really ‘social’ aspect, was a dodgy ciggie.

I was referring to people who have been vaccinated then ignoring the possibility of becoming re-infected and transmitting to and infecting others - both vaxxed and not vaxxed.

With virtually all restrictions now lifted and restaurants and pubs filling up again the possibility of re-infection is more than likely. To wilfully affect uninfected others is, frankly, unsocial.

[clf]

Originally Posted by wraymond

Thanks Jon, my attempts at avoiding upsetting some advocates inadvertently has made me ultra-cautious! My intention was a reference to the media and especially government spin doctors’ treatment of vaccination as a confirmation of sainthood and those not accepting such propaganda as a biblical truth getting, er, vexed (!).



In my case I accept I am somewhat isolated (in the old sense) in that the last time I can remember I was infected with anything to do with public transmission was Mumps in 1945.



As a Liverpudlian infant in what is quaintly now called high density housing, everybody was at risk in the real sense. Since then, nothing. No vaxxes, no diseases, no inoculations, no infections. Once and once only a trial, with a really ‘social’ aspect, was a dodgy ciggie.



I was referring to people who have been vaccinated then ignoring the possibility of becoming re-infected and transmitting to and infecting others - both vaxxed and not vaxxed.



With virtually all restrictions now lifted and restaurants and pubs filling up again the possibility of re-infection is more than likely. To wilfully affect uninfected others is, frankly, unsocial.

Your post reads as though vaccination somehow makes you immune.

The idea behind the vaccination was to reduce the severity of any infection, to the point where hospital treatment would be unnecessary.

Infections will continue, vaccinated or not, and transmit by those vaccinated or not. The point of it is purely to reduce the burden on the health service. If it saves lives too, that would be an added bonus.

On a personal level, I dont believe those that are vaccinated are saints, and in turn those not, are the devil. The only reason I got the vaccinations was to pacify my mother, who would be vulnerable to the effects of covid. If I did not have as much contact with her, I am not sure I would have got it (my sister actually made the appointment as I didnt know nor cared to find out how to get it lol).

I haven't been to the doctor in nearly 20 years, as it is, I dont need to (well I do, for precautionary tests -hereditary issues, and for minor issues I can deal with in other ways). I spent a lot of time with my grandfather, who needed the doctor but avoided him as much as possible as 'there are others more ill than me' and this has stuck with me.

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[torque2me]

Originally Posted by MSS

They did not interfere in political matters. What they did was to apply the laws of the land without fear or favour.

That was not my reading of the situation!

Kev

[MSS]

Originally Posted by torque2me

That was not my reading of the situation!

Kev

Do you think that might be because you were/are looking at the actions of the court/judges from a political perspective yourself?

[MSS]

Originally Posted by wraymond

Thanks Jon, my attempts at avoiding upsetting some advocates inadvertently has made me ultra-cautious! My intention was a reference to the media and especially government spin doctors’ treatment of vaccination as a confirmation of sainthood and those not accepting such propaganda as a biblical truth getting, er, vexed (!).

In my case I accept I am somewhat isolated (in the old sense) in that the last time I can remember I was infected with anything to do with public transmission was Mumps in 1945.

As a Liverpudlian infant in what is quaintly now called high density housing, everybody was at risk in the real sense. Since then, nothing. No vaxxes, no diseases, no inoculations, no infections. Once and once only a trial, with a really ‘social’ aspect, was a dodgy ciggie.

I was referring to people who have been vaccinated then ignoring the possibility of becoming re-infected and transmitting to and infecting others - both vaxxed and not vaxxed.

With virtually all restrictions now lifted and restaurants and pubs filling up again the possibility of re-infection is more than likely. To wilfully affect uninfected others is, frankly, unsocial.

Wraymond - it appears that you are making a key but unsafe assumption, which is that you have not carried the virus and transmitted it to others. Given that asymptomatic infection exists and has been shown to be contributing to transmission, your assumption is unsafe.

The behaviour you describe is to be commended, of course.

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by MSS

Do you think that might be because you were/are looking at the actions of the court/judges from a political perspective yourself?

No, reading the situation from a constitutional perspective!

Kev

[MSS]

Originally Posted by torque2me

No, reading the situation from a constitutional perspective!

Kev

The constitutional perspective - which is?

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by MSS

Wraymond - it appears that you are making a key but unsafe assumption, which is that you have not carried the virus and transmitted it to others. Given that asymptomatic infection exists and has been shown to be contributing to transmission, your assumption is unsafe.

The behaviour you describe is to be commended, of course.

Not in the slightest. I have no illusions about immunity, either personal or collective.

It occurs to me that the more relevant details on this mass epidemic only emerged in dribs and drabs. Only after much argument, time and delays with fabricated guesses emerging at successively protracted and critical intervals. Corrective 'statements of fact' were followed by half-hearted part retractions leading to the panic borne of distrust.

It was shambolic to say the least. In the here and now, it is not over. It won't be over, for possibly years, and the vaccination does not provide protection to the patient or their familiars beyond six months.

So, it's an annual job with the attendant risks re-emerging every time to every patient, vaccinated or not. Obviously I'm not only not a doctor, neither do I have any other subjective training which might inform me. On the other hand, I did once undergo extensive training as a public health inspector during my time (10 years) in the meat trade. A long time ago, and nothing much changes except the lies and half truths when it is necessary to maintain order. Let's hope we might all be right.