Can't work in a care home

[Saga Lout]

Originally Posted by another_clean_sheet

And how many years have we been having annual flu vaccinnes?
Can you point me to the source of the data that shows that natural immunity is the best protection.
I assume that you are not going to analyse the ONS data

Do you understand how the annual flu jab works? It's a best guess vaccine based on previous figures and what might be going around in any given year, it's not the answer to each year's flu outbreak. I'm not going to even try to point you in the direction of the data showing natural immunity is the best protection, if you can't grasp that as a fact of life you're wasting your time debating health issues. The vaccines work as a defence against serious illness but natural protection comes from recovery from illness without medical intervention, that's a fact. There are around 9.5 million people in the UK that have recovered from the virus this year, that's 9.5 million people who do not need a vaccine anymore for this current virus. If they take a vaccine it's because of fear or a lack of understanding of natural immunity, each and every one of us can get this more than once with or without vaccines. You are right, I'm not going to take the data of any government as a fact until they start telling the truth in that data.

[another_clean_sheet]

Originally Posted by Saga Lout

Do you understand how the annual flu jab works? It's a best guess vaccine based on previous figures and what might be going around in any given year, it's not the answer to each year's flu outbreak. I'm not going to even try to point you in the direction of the data showing natural immunity is the best protection, if you can't grasp that as a fact of life you're wasting your time debating health issues. The vaccines work as a defence against serious illness but natural protection comes from recovery from illness without medical intervention, that's a fact. There are around 9.5 million people in the UK that have recovered from the virus this year, that's 9.5 million people who do not need a vaccine anymore for this current virus. If they take a vaccine it's because of fear or a lack of understanding of natural immunity, each and every one of us can get this more than once with or without vaccines. You are right, I'm not going to take the data of any government as a fact until they start telling the truth in that data.

I am not sure that I will understand you. You obviosly believe in conspiracy theories re some of your quotes - 'propaganda to achieve compliance', 'more trickery to convince the doubters', 'real data will not be given to the public', 'the data is being twisted'
When I quoted the conclusions of the Office of National Statistics which you did not believe, you wanted to see the actual data they used. Now you do not want to see the base data because it has been manipulated (another conspiracy). The ONS is not a Government dept but the largest independant producer of official statistics funded by the Economic and Social Research Council.
When I asked you where was the source of data re natural immunity you told me it was a fact of life which I could not grasp. If it is a fact where is the data?
Looking at certain countries in Europe where the take up of vacinnes is a lot less than the UK and a higher % are depending on natural immunity does not seem to be going well.
I suggest that you read this article from the British Society of Immunology on natural immunity and vacinnes or is that another conspiracy?
https://www.immunology.org/coronavir...ection-vaccine

[Saga Lout]

Originally Posted by another_clean_sheet

I am not sure that I will understand you. You obviosly believe in conspiracy theories re some of your quotes - 'propaganda to achieve compliance', 'more trickery to convince the doubters', 'real data will not be given to the public', 'the data is being twisted'
When I quoted the conclusions of the Office of National Statistics which you did not believe, you wanted to see the actual data they used. Now you do not want to see the base data because it has been manipulated (another conspiracy). The ONS is not a Government dept but the largest independant producer of official statistics funded by the Economic and Social Research Council.
When I asked you where was the source of data re natural immunity you told me it was a fact of life which I could not grasp. If it is a fact where is the data?
Looking at certain countries in Europe where the take up of vacinnes is a lot less than the UK and a higher % are depending on natural immunity does not seem to be going well.
I suggest that you read this article from the British Society of Immunology on natural immunity and vacinnes or is that another conspiracy?
https://www.immunology.org/coronavir...ection-vaccine

So, the only illness in the history of the world where natural immunity is weaker than a man made vaccine that fades after a few short months? Do you realise how stupid that sounds? The natural immunity is already going beyond two years in most studies. If that's what you believe then you're a lost cause. The fly in the ointment is that I'm not anti vax, I believe if you've not had the virus you should get jabbed, what I don't believe is the garbage that's being spouted to coerce people into getting jabbed regardless of status, when they started scaring children into getting it that was enough. I don't believe anything `official` right now concerning this virus, the figures are being manipulated daily. I don't care about any other county as their numbers are no concern to our progress through this virus. You can believe what you want but I'm happy to sit on the outside looking in, I have no reason to take the jab no matter what the `experts` might say. I saw one yesterday, a professor Jonathan Ball stating you must get the vaccine even if you've had the virus, imagine my surprise when I found out he gets money from people who make vaccines, call me cynical but I think he lies to keep them happy, I'm certain that many other experts are pushing the jabs for similar reasons. If you want to carry on getting vaccinated with a vaccine that clearly isn't working very well, be my guest, when you're on your fifth jab I'll pay for an independent blood test to check my immunity against yours, how does that sound?

[another_clean_sheet]

Originally Posted by Saga Lout

So, the only illness in the history of the world where natural immunity is weaker than a man made vaccine that fades after a few short months? Do you realise how stupid that sounds? The natural immunity is already going beyond two years in most studies. If that's what you believe then you're a lost cause. The fly in the ointment is that I'm not anti vax, I believe if you've not had the virus you should get jabbed, what I don't believe is the garbage that's being spouted to coerce people into getting jabbed regardless of status, when they started scaring children into getting it that was enough. I don't believe anything `official` right now concerning this virus, the figures are being manipulated daily. I don't care about any other county as their numbers are no concern to our progress through this virus. You can believe what you want but I'm happy to sit on the outside looking in, I have no reason to take the jab no matter what the `experts` might say. I saw one yesterday, a professor Jonathan Ball stating you must get the vaccine even if you've had the virus, imagine my surprise when I found out he gets money from people who make vaccines, call me cynical but I think he lies to keep them happy, I'm certain that many other experts are pushing the jabs for similar reasons. If you want to carry on getting vaccinated with a vaccine that clearly isn't working very well, be my guest, when you're on your fifth jab I'll pay for an independent blood test to check my immunity against yours, how does that sound?

So the British Society for Iimmunology is wrong also?
I will take up your offer of a blood test and in return I will renew your subscription to the Flat Earth Society

[edwardmk]

It's going to be very interesting going forwards how the stats change, but I'm also deeply suspicious of many of the stats being quoted. Back in the days of the Framington heart study, the researchers studied data from over 20 countries. They threw out the data from the countries that didn't support their hypothesis and finally ran with only eight countries. No mention was made in the study of this dumping of data that didn't fit the narrative they were trying to prove. Rinse and repeat with big tobacco. Rinse and repeat with brain damage in boxers, footballers. Follow the money and the hubris, but it's not always easy to do. Check out the Vioxx scandal. We know big pharma likes big profits, and that makes me suspicious. I've had all three jabs, but I don't want to be jabbed every six months for the rest of my life. And I do think it's unconscionable to start jabbing young children with mRNA therapy for something that has no long term track record and that 99.999% of children make a fast and full recovery from. I was chatting to a GP patient who told me that lateral flow tests are very inaccurate, and often contradict the PCR tests. There are hordes of folk being told they have Covid when they don't, and many who have Covid but don't get tested because they think it's just a bad cold. Let's not get too polarised and be safe out there as best as we individually can.

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by edwardmk

I was chatting to a GP patient who told me that lateral flow tests are very inaccurate, and often contradict the PCR tests. There are hordes of folk being told they have Covid when they don't, and many who have Covid but don't get tested because they think it's just a bad cold. Let's not get too polarised and be safe out there as best as we individually can.

You don't need to chat with a 'GP patient' it is very common knowledge that the LF test is far from 100%, of either positive or negative. The standard is the PCR, the LF is just a better than nothing indication for home testing and regular testing purposes. The authorities admit this, it is no secret.

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

You don't need to chat with a 'GP patient' it is very common knowledge that the LF test is far from 100%, of either positive or negative. The standard is the PCR, the LF is just a better than nothing indication for home testing and regular testing purposes. The authorities admit this, it is no secret.

Right, and advice was or is to take a PCR test if a positive is given from a LFT.

Simpleees!

Kev

[wraymond]

First, I’ve just caught up with this so offer my apologies for the following if this has been covered earlier. To say I’m sceptical is more than a bit of an understatement.

Care homes are a business and subject to market pressures. The staff members are angels and, as well as treating residents’ health problems, they do actually care – sometimes in extremis.

Any business owner would be acutely aware of the current widespread extreme pressure to be provably healthy and ahead of the game whilst they maintain their usual standards. So the opportunity to stay in business, perhaps not exactly and entirely an altruistic motivation, is understandable.

Ridiculously, as we know, the vaccination does not prevent infection of others. Nor does it prevent subsequent reinfection although if I owned such a business I have no doubt I would, albeit reluctantly, insist on going ahead with such a policy.

However, I am not in business and so can be free of any commercial or other pressure, especially the repressive and heavy handed government induced panic. Also, with me at 78 years and my parents having predeceased me, bless them, there are no relatives in a ‘care’ home to worry about.

I see all this as an incremental step in the prevention/eradication of common ailments (including all the current plagues that occur periodically) as having the effect of attempting to partially ensure the continued success of the NHS with the added advantage of massively cutting costs. So, what better way of taking extreme pressure off future governments.

Government edicts such as the current publicity storm speak volumes for me, and this ragbag of a cause and effect circus has a massive and retrograde effect on our hard won freedoms. A curse on all their houses.

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by Saga Lout

So, the only illness in the history of the world where natural immunity is weaker than a man made vaccine that fades after a few short months? Do you realise how stupid that sounds? The natural immunity is already going beyond two years in most studies. If that's what you believe then you're a lost cause. The fly in the ointment is that I'm not anti vax, I believe if you've not had the virus you should get jabbed, what I don't believe is the garbage that's being spouted to coerce people into getting jabbed regardless of status, when they started scaring children into getting it that was enough. I don't believe anything `official` right now concerning this virus, the figures are being manipulated daily. I don't care about any other county as their numbers are no concern to our progress through this virus. You can believe what you want but I'm happy to sit on the outside looking in, I have no reason to take the jab no matter what the `experts` might say. I saw one yesterday, a professor Jonathan Ball stating you must get the vaccine even if you've had the virus, imagine my surprise when I found out he gets money from people who make vaccines, call me cynical but I think he lies to keep them happy, I'm certain that many other experts are pushing the jabs for similar reasons. If you want to carry on getting vaccinated with a vaccine that clearly isn't working very well, be my guest, when you're on your fifth jab I'll pay for an independent blood test to check my immunity against yours, how does that sound?

I'd like to mention one thing though I might be wrong.---I didn't think it was the vaccine itself that fought the virus.--I was under the impression that the vaccine kick started your own immune system into producing anti-bodies.

Thus the same anti-bodies resulted from either the genuine virus attack or the vaccine.----The body's defence system had to start from scratch giving the virus longer to harm you.---The vaccine giving you a head start so to speak on your fight against the virus.

In both cases however' it is YOUR system that is doing the work

Checking your system against that of another would be comparing like to like would it not??

[Arctic]

Originally Posted by Saga Lout

So, the only illness in the history of the world where natural immunity is weaker than a man made vaccine that fades after a few short months? Do you realise how stupid that sounds? The natural immunity is already going beyond two years in most studies. If that's what you believe then you're a lost cause.

, what I don't believe is the garbage that's being spouted to coerce people into getting jabbed regardless of status, when they started scaring children into getting it that was enough. I don't believe anything `official` right now concerning this virus, the figures are being manipulated daily. I don't care about any other county as their numbers are no concern to our progress through this virus. You can believe what you want but I'm happy to sit on the outside looking in, I have no reason to take the jab no matter what the `experts` might say. I saw one yesterday, a professor Jonathan Ball stating you must get the vaccine even if you've had the virus, imagine my surprise when I found out he gets money from people who make vaccines, call me cynical but I think he lies to keep them happy, I'm certain that many other experts are pushing the jabs for similar reasons. If you want to carry on getting vaccinated with a vaccine that clearly isn't working very well, be my guest, when you're on your fifth jab I'll pay for an independent blood test to check my immunity against yours, how does that sound?

Hi Michael.
I am now presuming that the outlined statement above means, if you had not caught Covid you would have the jab yes, if so did you catch it before the jabs were being offered or not, and as you say and i agree those that wish to have the jab go ahead and do so, also those whom decided to have the jab, should not in anyway shape or form put down those that do not want to take up having the jab, therefore each to their own.

I also have no doubt we will all catch it in the end, hopefully having the jab for some it will not be that bad for them to the extent that it takes their life but who knows, as already stated even if you have natural immunity in our bodies it does not stop you from catching the virus again, the second time around might not be a good out put, funny things these little unseen creatures.