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Old 13th December 2021, 10:56   #21
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Originally Posted by COLVERT View Post
The title was GIVEN to verstappen.
Fully agree, race director turned the race into a farce.

I wouldn't have wanted to be anywhere near Toto Wolf when he complained to the race director and got the response "Its racing Toto"
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Old 13th December 2021, 11:04   #22
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Regardless of the other anomalies, a safety car has always bunched the pack up and many times has changed the shape of the race by removing any distance gained by the car in front, There is nothing new about this part of the procedure, sometimes strategies are built around the probability of a safety car event.
All the part time spectators who suddenly shout foul when this happens on the first time they watch the sport need to understand this is part of the complexity of the sport.
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Old 13th December 2021, 11:17   #23
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A safety car is normal, allowing lapped cars to pass the safety car is normal but only allowing the lapped cars between 1st and 2nd to pass the safety car isn't.
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Old 13th December 2021, 11:43   #24
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Regardless of the other anomalies, a safety car has always bunched the pack up and many times has changed the shape of the race by removing any distance gained by the car in front, There is nothing new about this part of the procedure, sometimes strategies are built around the probability of a safety car event.
All the part time spectators who suddenly shout foul when this happens on the first time they watch the sport need to understand this is part of the complexity of the sport.
Honestly we do understand it but not applied in this particular fashion.
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Old 13th December 2021, 12:01   #25
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It's a sport. If you cannot accept when things do not go your way, you should not be playing. There should be no right to challenge or appeal.

I feel that the driver who deserved to win, won. The sport is far richer because of him. End of.
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Old 13th December 2021, 13:24   #26
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Deserved the title ???---Never, it was given to him. He won more races.

You don't need a crystal ball to know who was going to win - I genuinely thought Hamilton was going to win, and have felt he gets a fair bit of leeway when it comes to sporting decisions. He should have had a penalty after cutting the corner to gain an advantage - I still think he would have won the race had it not been for the safety car.

Situation.---( One lap race. )

Two drivers of equal ability - Hamilton has more maturity and experience, plus arguably more commercial value to the FIA. Hamilton has become more of a driver than a racer though. It will be interesting to see how Vertsappen compares in 10-12 years, as he looks like a more aggressive version of Hamilton in his earlier days.

Two cars with similar performance - No they dont. Hamilton's car had a much fresher engine after Verstappen had to use his penalty engines much earlier on in the season, with one physically broken by a crash caused by Hamilton!

One with new tyres.

One with tyres on their last legs. - Both teams were free to change tyres, Mercedes were too conservative (dont blame them, I think I would have done the same thing if I was them lol). Mercedes didnt change since a message came through that lapped cars were to hold station. This was an unusual call, but not against the rules, as it is common for the lapped cars to unlap themselves. Then confusingly, this was partially rescinded, to allow Hamilton and Verstappen to have no lapped cars between them (which in itself could have caused a controversy if they got in Verstappen's way, Hamilton from what I could gather did not lose any time when passing them). Mercedes made their decision based upon the first message, but Verstappen had already pitted by that point. If Mercedes pitted when Red Bull did, it would have closed/lost that advantage and made the argument moot.


Who would you put your money on to win ???? The race or the championship? The championship, Verstappen, the race Hamilton. Verstappen was the most consistent throughout the year, especially the first half. Mercedes only started to put the effort in after Hamilton threw his toys out of the pram, when Mercedes stated they had no plans to develop the car this year.


The race control removed the obstacle between them by letting the lapped cars go so the opponents were together.--A space that Hamilton had generated. Due to circumstances beyond Verstappen's control he did not have the opportunity to do it himself, as you must agree, he would have passed them during those last ten laps. I do think he should have been forced to allow Hamilton the distance he was ahead though, before the Lattifi's crash, AND Hamilton to have a 5 second time added penalty due his advantage gain from cutting that corner at the first lap. But in the heat of the moment, that would have been too complicated.


The title was GIVEN to verstappen.
Yes of course, he finished with the most points. You have to say though, that he won it through someone else's controversial actions rather than his own (eg Schumacher, Senna etc).

Just be grateful Jean Marie Balestre is not around.
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Old 13th December 2021, 22:56   #27
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Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.--I will stick to mine which was formed solely on the unfair advantage during the last few laps of the race and not on the seasons results.

I stated exactly how I saw it in my previous post.

Hamilton was robbed.


End of.-----
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Old 13th December 2021, 23:04   #28
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Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.--I will stick to mine which was formed solely on the unfair advantage during the last few laps of the race and not on the seasons results.

I stated exactly how I saw it in my previous post.

Hamilton was robbed.


End of.-----

We were starting to get on so well, even agreeing (almost) on some battery terminology. It is such a shame all that progress has been lost with just one post.
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Old 13th December 2021, 23:48   #29
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Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.--I will stick to mine which was formed solely on the unfair advantage during the last few laps of the race and not on the seasons results.

I stated exactly how I saw it in my previous post.

Hamilton was robbed.


End of.-----

In your opinion, what happened between lap 1 and 48 does not matter? Equally, what happened in the previous races, ie their results, matters not also? Or did you simply not see any of the race beyond clips on news websites, or stills on tabloid newspapers?

You speak of the unfair advantage of the last few laps only, how about the unfair advantage of the first lap gained by Hamilton? Only one driver can claim to be treated unfairly?

By the logic of your opinion, there is no point in running any further races, and simply hand the trophy to Hamilton.

You are entitled to your opinion of course, in MINE, yours is flawed based upon the whole ethos of any competitive sporting event!
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Old 14th December 2021, 10:55   #30
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In your opinion, what happened between lap 1 and 48 does not matter? Equally, what happened in the previous races, ie their results, matters not also? Or did you simply not see any of the race beyond clips on news websites, or stills on tabloid newspapers?

You speak of the unfair advantage of the last few laps only, how about the unfair advantage of the first lap gained by Hamilton? Only one driver can claim to be treated unfairly?

By the logic of your opinion, there is no point in running any further races, and simply hand the trophy to Hamilton.

You are entitled to your opinion of course, in MINE, yours is flawed based upon the whole ethos of any competitive sporting event!
Paragraph 1---No.

Paragraph 2---If Hamilton hadn't swerved there would have been a collision to Verstappen's advantage. ( A cunning way to become world champion.)

Paragraph 3---Another race side by side over one lap: both on new tyres.

Paragraph 4---I wasn't speaking about the whole Ethos; just the end of that race.


My opinion. ---If all of the lapped cars had been allowed to pass, the race would have been over. Hamilton would have crossed the finish line first. Verstappen would not have had enough time to get to the front.

Just letting 5 cars through took away the advantage Hamilton had by the last couple of laps.

The controler's comment to Toto to let them race was rubbish because at that point one car had a tremendous advantage over the other.--( New tyres. )





My point of view coincides with that of Mercedes.--Unfortunately yours does not.

As they say-----There's more than one way to skin a cat.---
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