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Old 3rd January 2022, 12:21   #101
MSS
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i think the things that bother me the most are-
re tesla, only a tesla dealership is able to work on a tesla car,
the trade in value on a 8 year old tesla which is when the battery warranty finishes will be very little as the battery replacement is about $22,000 aud so the car is virtually worthless as a trade in.
So does the car become scrap value?
Further being as the car is still built using vast amounts of petroleum products,
seats, dash,trim, head unit, tyres, suspension,mirrors, body panels,battery casings, wiring etc, cant see how it is being marketed as this green new machine.
After you factor in the mining and processing the lithium for the batteries, i think
it takes about 5-6 years of use for the car to be carbon neutral, just in time for the new batteries-$22,000 aud later then you have just added another few years of carbon to zero emissions - so your getting up 8-10 years before being any benefit climate wise - here we go again!!

Expected battery life is 15 to 20 years.

What is the average lifespan of an ICE car?
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Old 3rd January 2022, 14:55   #102
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Originally Posted by genpk View Post
i think the things that bother me the most are-
re tesla, only a tesla dealership is able to work on a tesla car,
the trade in value on a 8 year old tesla which is when the battery warranty finishes will be very little as the battery replacement is about $22,000 aud so the car is virtually worthless as a trade in.
So does the car become scrap value?
Further being as the car is still built using vast amounts of petroleum products,
seats, dash,trim, head unit, tyres, suspension,mirrors, body panels,battery casings, wiring etc, cant see how it is being marketed as this green new machine.
After you factor in the mining and processing the lithium for the batteries, i think
it takes about 5-6 years of use for the car to be carbon neutral, just in time for the new batteries-$22,000 aud later then you have just added another few years of carbon to zero emissions - so your getting up 8-10 years before being any benefit climate wise - here we go again!!
Any EV trained tech can work on any EV car, the problem being education and training. Main dealers have to do this to fall in line with manufacturer standards. Many independents are now also investing in training as wether you like it it or not ev’s are coming and hybrids and ev’s are probably outselling ice cars allready. A lot of new cars are also made using recycled products in manufacturing interior cloths and plastics. As for the value of an 8 year old Tesla, have a look on eBay and they hold values well like all EV’s do. It’s no different to buying an 8 year old Range Rover which has the potential to ingest it’s own supercharger at great cost.
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Old 3rd January 2022, 22:28   #103
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Other approached to traveling are possibe.

In the 1980's I used to travel to Geneva every three months for technical meetings at the ITU/CCITT. Sometimes I flew. Other times, I would drive in my Austin Montego. I used to take 3 days to get there, stopping off at various Chateau in France in order to sample the French hospitality and way of life. Looking back, I could have done the same in an EV.

Travel does not need to be rushed - it can be turned into a cultural experience. We just need to get into a different mindset.
Sorry, but I only have i.c.e. Why should I fly to Germany? I have a car I have enjoyed driving on long distances to the continent. Just fill up and go. Why should I have to hope I can get a ‘top up’ halfway to where I am going to? Not only get a top up but have to wait for a charge station to come up along my route? And then hope it either works or someone else is using it? Time will tell how good e.v’s are.Wait for a little while and see the price of e.vs go up drastically. By the way, there are loads of them waiting in fields for a buyer, just like the old days used to be. But then again, hydrogen will kill the e.v. Off.Hows that for a prophesy?
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Old 3rd January 2022, 22:44   #104
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Expected battery life is 15 to 20 years.

What is the average lifespan of an ICE car?
Elon Musk says 150,000 miles. Another quote is around 8 years. Far short of 15/20 years.And the cost:- average £10,000 per module, not the complete pack. Nice and cheap eh? Try selling your e.v. When it is around 6-8 years old. Only a very rich person would buy it. What do you do with it then? Perhaps the company will have a ‘scrap it’ policy? It’s a joke. Both my Rovers are, 20 and 19 years old. No rust whatsoever on body so far.
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Old 3rd January 2022, 22:58   #105
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Sorry, but I only have i.c.e. Why should I fly to Germany? I have a car I have enjoyed driving on long distances to the continent. Just fill up and go. Why should I have to hope I can get a ‘top up’ halfway to where I am going to? Not only get a top up but have to wait for a charge station to come up along my route? And then hope it either works or someone else is using it? Time will tell how good e.v’s are.Wait for a little while and see the price of e.vs go up drastically. By the way, there are loads of them waiting in fields for a buyer, just like the old days used to be. But then again, hydrogen will kill the e.v. Off.Hows that for a prophesy?

The Germans may not want you in Germany with your ICE powered polluter


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Elon Musk says 150,000 miles. ........

Which equates to about 20 years of motoring for 90%+ of cars!
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Old 3rd January 2022, 23:36   #106
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I think tesla only warranty their batteries for 8 years?
Not sure but at $22,000 aud a go, would not like to hedge my bets on replacing a bad battery just out of warranty.
Saw recently a bloke have this happen with his tesla, faulty battery just out of warranty , had a massive fight with tesla who refused to help so the owner blew up his tesla with dynamite as the car was effectively worthless!!
Re hybrid cars- crazy to buy one as the EU has already flagged to outlaw them by 2030, so where is the value in that!!
Ev’s have their use in places where your doing short distances daily or high density populations with being able to charge at each end of the journey such as the UK but in a place like Australia,
apart from to and from work city driving, absolutely useless over distances here.
Also not so good where the power grid is not in good shape either.
Hydrogen fuel cell is the only way to here hence the billions of $ currently being invested here in hydrogen production.
700km for s fuel cell, 2 minutes to refill.

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Old 3rd January 2022, 23:40   #107
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[QUOTE=genpk;2914927]I think tesla only warranty their batteries for 8 years?
............/QUOTE]


No company will warranty their product for a period anywhere near the expected life. So an 8-year warranty would be consistent with a 15-20 year expected life.
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Old 4th January 2022, 07:58   #108
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[QUOTE=MSS;2914928]
Quote:
Originally Posted by genpk View Post
I think tesla only warranty their batteries for 8 years?
............/QUOTE]


No company will warranty their product for a period anywhere near the expected life. So an 8-year warranty would be consistent with a 15-20 year expected life.
Not sure about that as most current battery suppliers seem to make batteries that seem to start failing within 12 or 24 months of warranty expiry.
I think there are already cases of tesla owners having to replace their batteries.
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Old 4th January 2022, 08:46   #109
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If batteries are so long lasting in EV powered cars how come the one in Mobile phones struggle to last more than 30 months before they struggle to last a day.
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Old 4th January 2022, 10:24   #110
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[QUOTE=genpk;2914932]
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Not sure about that as most current battery suppliers seem to make batteries that seem to start failing within 12 or 24 months of warranty expiry.
I think there are already cases of tesla owners having to replace their batteries.
We need to differentiate between expected operational life and failure. Failure occurs in very small percentage of production and the bath tub curve generally applies in some form. Warranty periods are set to provide risk mitigation against the early failures and to generally provide confidence in the purchase.

Expected operational life is, on the whole, determined by operational/performance degradation. This would normally be expected to be much longer than the warranty period.

In general, I don't think any one is saying that some manufacturers have not had teething troubles with a small percentage of their batteries. But this occurs even with new engines - read all the horror stories about replacement engines needed on new or nearly new LR, Mercedes etc.

It is interesting to note that those on here who own an EV are not highlighting any major regrets and most of the negativity is from others who do not own the technology. This is a pattern we saw with catalytic converters, DMF and so on.

Finally, and once again, an EV will not be ideal for every potential buyer. But for many situations, it may be the ideal technology.

Post above re battery lifetime - my Nikon D100, purchased around 2008, is still running happily on its original two batteries in the grip.


I see the double nesting of quotes is playing up. The above quoted text is from genpk rather than myself.
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