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Old 6th January 2022, 01:42   #11
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I would say both are equally at fault. The cyclist should have been reading the road far better and has a responsibility for his own safety but the car driver demonstrated the importance of indicators by not using them until well after he'd started the manoeuvre

I'm mainly a car driver but also an occasional cyclist and in the last 200 miles on the bike I've had 2 road rage incidents, both cars thinking I should be riding on the verge and not in the lane and 3 very near misses, the worst being a woman pulling out of a junction just a few meters ahead of me when I was doing 15mph. Luckily I saw her head bob and something told me she was going to go so I was hard on the brakes before she even started to move, had I not have been that would have hurt. What makes it even worse is that I was wearing high vis and had my front light on!

I actually think the changes to the highway code are very good. It's a changing world and more and more people are walking and cycling which is good for the environment and our health but us drivers do need to be reminded that the roads are not our domain simply because we pay tax and insurance but are in fact a shared space that we have the privilege to use.
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Old 6th January 2022, 15:31   #12
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Both are at fault, car driver not using rear and nearside mirror, cyclist failing to position sensibly in a narrow 20mph road. However, the incident smacked of a put up job- both users had "near misses" and both then did something potentially dangerous. Very strange. On the Insurance and "road tax" observation??? Chris.S.
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Old 6th January 2022, 15:31   #13
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It's difficult to avoid getting into the 'well, he would say that wouldn't he' but in my view, and in spite of the car narrowing the near side clearance, the cyclist should and could have easily anticipated the event by the simple rule of self-protection when vulnerable. Being right isn't always a good thing. Some cyclists take unbelievable chances on a hoped-for outcome in the face of possible danger.

The first cycling lesson, if indeed there are any, should be you are in grave danger when in traffic.


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Old 6th January 2022, 20:38   #14
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In my opinion there are faults with both parties.

The cyclist is undertaking the car (which is clearly ahead of him) on a single carriage way, and in my opinion there is not sufficient room to do so especially seeing as there are junctions and pedestrians for both users to consider.

The car driver leaves it too late to indicate and does not appear to be aware of the cyclist at all.

I can see from both parties point of view how easy these errors in judgement have been made considering the amount of other things going on that needed both their consideration. We all have to remember that using the road tests every human beings concentration to the limits throughout most if not all of our journeys.
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Old 7th January 2022, 10:15   #15
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Sorry, how is this not the cyclists fault? 16 seconds into the vid it is displayed on the bottom corner of the screen that cyclists should ride a doors width from parked cars and that in narrow lanes they should ride in the centre of the lane. ( not try to sneak up the inside!)
In this instance the cyclist does neither!!!
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Old 8th January 2022, 00:04   #16
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I think the fault/responsibility for the collision lies >80% with the cyclist and <20% with the car driver for the following reasons.

1. The cyclist unsuccessfully tried to overtake the car on the inside at a junction.

2. He then did the same at the next junction and collided with the car.

3. In both cases the cyclist positioned himself poorly in what I would describe as the danger zone coming up to a left turn. The probability of the cyclist being in the driver's blind zone was high.

4. I would say that the only thing the car driver did wrong was to signal rather late. This is a passive failure i.e. a failure to execute good practice. A following vehicle should expect such omissions and position itself far enough behind to be able to stop within the available distance.

5. If the cyclist had been another car or motorcycle, they would have gone into the rear left of the blue car and no one would have blamed the driver of the blue car.

IMO the police were right not to prosecute the car driver but should have prosecuted the cyclist for careless riding.

The cyclist with the camera runs a youtube channel and is a vigilante. I notice from his videos that he is always looking over his shoulder in order to spot car drivers using phones etc. and as a result tends to wobble a lot.

IMO the need for cyclists to display clear registration plates and hold third party insurance is long overdue.
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Old 8th January 2022, 02:06   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS View Post
I think the fault/responsibility for the collision lies >80% with the cyclist and <20% with the car driver for the following reasons.

1. The cyclist unsuccessfully tried to overtake the car on the inside at a junction.

2. He then did the same at the next junction and collided with the car.

3. In both cases the cyclist positioned himself poorly in what I would describe as the danger zone coming up to a left turn. The probability of the cyclist being in the driver's blind zone was high.

4. I would say that the only thing the car driver did wrong was to signal rather late. This is a passive failure i.e. a failure to execute good practice. A following vehicle should expect such omissions and position itself far enough behind to be able to stop within the available distance.

5. If the cyclist had been another car or motorcycle, they would have gone into the rear left of the blue car and no one would have blamed the driver of the blue car.

IMO the police were right not to prosecute the car driver but should have prosecuted the cyclist for careless riding.

The cyclist with the camera runs a youtube channel and is a vigilante. I notice from his videos that he is always looking over his shoulder in order to spot car drivers using phones etc. and as a result tends to wobble a lot.

IMO the need for cyclists to display clear registration plates and hold third party insurance is long overdue.
I agree with you, except the proportion of blame. Whilst the driver did indeed indicate very late (almost to the point where their indication was pointless), how many times have you had to brake due to a late or non-indication? Who would be to blame in a rear end collision in such an incident (just as you suggest)? It is this reason the cyclist is wholly to blame in my view, just because the cyclist is more vulnerable/smaller road vehicle, they should not be excused from the same principles of safe distancing. As the cyclist crashed into the car, or rode into the car, he demonstrated that he was too close to safely stop in time, or not paying attention. He chose to use a vulnerable mode of transport, he should also be responsible for his vulnerability (at least in this situation - other situations/circumstances may dictate a car should assume some responsibility for a cyclists vulnerability, eg if the car had overtaken the cyclist shortly before turning, ie no excuse for not knowing they could be in their blind spot).

If the road was half a width wider, I would consider some blame to the car driver, as he should have seen the cyclist when he sped out initially from the junction, and therefore sought him out before the turn. I thought he pulled out inconsiderately to almost cutting up the cyclist. He may possibly not even have seen that cyclist in the first place, and then the cyclist cycled up into the blind spot of the driver, to which the cyclist could have been equally ignorant of. If it had been two lanes, and the car was in the right hand lane, then wholly blame the car driver. But it wasnt, and it would be reasonable for the car driver to assume there was no space on the inside for the cyclist to be. The camera cyclist evidences and even highlights the narrowness of the road.

THIS is a video of a TV campaign broadcast here a few years ago (it should start at the relevant section to this instance)

As for the camera cyclist he seems to be a youtube ratings/attention seeker, totally unreasonable (as a lot of his videos are to me), particularly inconsiderate and ignorant in my view, by being disappointed the car driver was not prosecuted for anything. Some of his videos though are justified for some action to be taken.

------------------------------------------------------------

To be fair to some cyclists, some do carry third party insurance. Registration would be good, and would help reduce cycle theft I believe, but I think it would be difficult to police, read also as increased costs/taxes. Its implementation would be difficult too, how would you legislate which bikes required registration? By wheel size perhaps, or intended use, eg kids bikes - perhaps being free for some types of bikes? Selling it on would be complicated initially. Perhaps use the model already in place for vehicles intended for road use?
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Old 9th January 2022, 21:03   #18
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Regardless of what the car driver did. Idiot cyclist insisting upon just riding along on the inside of a moving vehicle from 40 seconds into the video.
There is no teaching a lesson to that kind of arrogant stupidity. If I were driving the car and he opened his mouth I would have put my fist in it.
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Old 9th January 2022, 21:51   #19
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Bit of news for anyone coming over to France for a holiday.---In France the car driver is ALWAYS to blame.

The thinking is that a bicycle, being inherently unstable, has to be given more than enough room for the rider to fall over on to his side in front of the car and still not be run over.

All other cyclist antics have to be allowed for too.
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Old 10th January 2022, 19:08   #20
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I think its something similar in Spain. Chris.S.
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