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Old 5th January 2022, 20:26   #41
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Tell me more, don't work or don't work properly?

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They use power to tell you how much power you use, there's instances of them causing fires because they're made to a cost from shoddy materials, there's also some people that say they cause illness but I have nothing to say about that because I don't know. The simple point is that they're made to make you change your user habits, they do nothing other than that.
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Old 5th January 2022, 21:50   #42
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They are intended to remove the element of consumer challenge arsing from disputed charges/readings. There are occasional increases mid-term which lead to protracted disputes which the suppliers automatically see as suspected fraud.

The system allows the supplier to independently switch the meter off in the cases of dispute until a satisfactory result is obtained, in their favour, without need for judicial verdict. Obviously, the consumer then has no energy supplied so pays up without delay.

Increased charges can be levied instantly without expense to the supplier making the business far more profitable and there is no need to employ meter readers. These and other considerable savings are entirely in the suppliers interest and confer no benefit to the consumer and are totally beyond the consumer's input. There's plenty more , but it's moot and pointless. There is no upside to the customer, no advantage, no gain or control. When market penetration is at the required level it will be too late to object.

Mainly though, the absence of a 'deal' with a term allows the supplier to avoid being limited to contract dates to impose real or opportunistic charges without reference to any market imperatives. Surprise, surprise. No doubt this will come as a disappointment. Of course, all this might not be true but I am quite happy to be taking bets.
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Old 5th January 2022, 23:24   #43
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Originally Posted by Saga Lout View Post
They use power to tell you how much power you use, there's instances of them causing fires because they're made to a cost from shoddy materials, there's also some people that say they cause illness but I have nothing to say about that because I don't know. The simple point is that they're made to make you change your user habits, they do nothing other than that.
That is interesting. I am of the view that we all need to change our energy consumption habits. Which is why, as stated in post #35, I have been using a similar device of my own and keeping an eye on daily usage for the past 3ish years.


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Originally Posted by wraymond View Post
They are intended to remove the element of consumer challenge arsing from disputed charges/readings. There are occasional increases mid-term which lead to protracted disputes which the suppliers automatically see as suspected fraud.

The system allows the supplier to independently switch the meter off in the cases of dispute until a satisfactory result is obtained, in their favour, without need for judicial verdict. Obviously, the consumer then has no energy supplied so pays up without delay.

Increased charges can be levied instantly without expense to the supplier making the business far more profitable and there is no need to employ meter readers. These and other considerable savings are entirely in the suppliers interest and confer no benefit to the consumer and are totally beyond the consumer's input. There's plenty more , but it's moot and pointless. There is no upside to the customer, no advantage, no gain or control. When market penetration is at the required level it will be too late to object.

Mainly though, the absence of a 'deal' with a term allows the supplier to avoid being limited to contract dates to impose real or opportunistic charges without reference to any market imperatives. Surprise, surprise. No doubt this will come as a disappointment. Of course, all this might not be true but I am quite happy to be taking bets.
I have to say that I've never had an issue with a utility company overcharging for supply. Nor changing prices outwith contract. But then I am a stickler for detail so tend always to maintain an understanding of what I am being charged and why. I can however see that where the consumer is in difficulty with payments etc. a smart meter will give the utility company instant over-riding power.

My smart meter is being fitted at the end of next week. We shall see how I get on with it over the next couple of years.
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Old 6th January 2022, 09:02   #44
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That is interesting. I am of the view that we all need to change our energy consumption habits. Which is why, as stated in post #35, I have been using a similar device of my own and keeping an eye on daily usage for the past 3ish years.




I have to say that I've never had an issue with a utility company overcharging for supply. Nor changing prices outwith contract. But then I am a stickler for detail so tend always to maintain an understanding of what I am being charged and why. I can however see that where the consumer is in difficulty with payments etc. a smart meter will give the utility company instant over-riding power.

My smart meter is being fitted at the end of next week. We shall see how I get on with it over the next couple of years.
Having smart meters will eventually lead to meter readers being out of a job, the smart meter uploads your readings automatically.
I don't use self service tills for that reason, basic shop work gets a lot of young people on the employment ladder, one person manning four tills puts everyone's young people at risk of not getting a job, it might get you out of a shop faster but it makes money for the shops and no-one else.
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Old 6th January 2022, 09:45   #45
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I did not say, nor did I allude, that there was any overcharging. Excess (or unreasonable) profits are a feature that is no doubt sought but seldom discussed due to 'market sensibilities'. The now shrinking markets give the biggest beasts a massive edge and the impetus to dictate rates rather than respond to competitive necessities. Elementary commerce.
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Old 6th January 2022, 10:11   #46
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My smart meter allowed me to find that th coal effect gas fire was uneconomical to run.

Taxing by stelth as been a art for quite a while. It is on most things. When do we realise we only pay low tax at source (wages) and all th add ons we seam not to notice as much.. Cleaver stuff.

Heating .... Value Addes Tax!!!!. I thought heating was life saving not friperie.
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Old 6th January 2022, 15:06   #47
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Did you know, we actually pay tax on the air we breath?
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Old 6th January 2022, 16:20   #48
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My smart meter allowed me to find that th coal effect gas fire was uneconomical to run.

Taxing by stelth as been a art for quite a while. It is on most things. When do we realise we only pay low tax at source (wages) and all th add ons we seam not to notice as much.. Cleaver stuff.

Heating .... Value Addes Tax!!!!. I thought heating was life saving not friperie.
Anyone that knows a bit about gas knows that, there's a site called SEDBUK where you can check the efficiency of your gas boiler if you have one, most older boilers are very low % efficient and it's worth knowing how much it cost's to run one. Many newer combi condensors are very good and into the 90% range, if your old boiler is say 60% efficient that's 40p out of every £ you spend on gas going to waste. The money a newer boiler costs is soon clawed back with the savings.
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Old 6th January 2022, 16:37   #49
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Anyone that knows a bit about gas knows that, there's a site called SEDBUK where you can check the efficiency of your gas boiler if you have one, most older boilers are very low % efficient and it's worth knowing how much it cost's to run one. Many newer combi condensors are very good and into the 90% range, if your old boiler is say 60% efficient that's 40p out of every £ you spend on gas going to waste. The money a newer boiler costs is soon clawed back with the savings.

Last time I costed up replacing an old boiler with a newer more efficient one. Once I'd factored in maintenance and expected lifetime of the new boiler (shockingly low compared to their predecessors) there was no financial advantage. However with the cost of gas rising it is worth redoing this calculation on an annual basis.

It's even worse if you ask someone like British Gas to do it - they'll insist on ripping your house apart to replace the whole of the heating system and cost you upwards of 8k for a medium sized 3 bed semi - to fit a boiler that by itself costs less than 1k. Leaving you to redecorate where necessary on top.
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Old 6th January 2022, 17:11   #50
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To be fair to British Gas, their service is second to none. We actually had the CH boiler and controls replaced by BG in a property that we rent out. We also paid for a power flush. So the total cost was around £8k. A year later, there was some sludge in the expansion tank. Their engineer came and spent nearly the whole day repeating the power flush until absolutely clear water was present in the system.

We pay around £400 a year for one of their gas/CH/plumbing/electrics maintenance and boiler service contracts. It's well worth it for peace of mind for ourselves and the tenants who can call BG out whenever there is a problem.

BG's quality of service has been absolutely brilliant. For us, it's well worth the price.
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