Hifi streaming issues

uk_dave&gill · 24th May 2013, 17:44

I've fairly recently bought a Denon hifi system, centering around this Network Audio player.. (actually, I've had it since January, but as I wanted all the work on our extension to be completed before installing it, I only tried it for the first time last week......)

So. Set it all up and initially had problems getting the unit to "speak" to the network due to firewall issues, but got this sorted without too much difficulty. Now the whole system comprises of the above mentioned Network Audio player, a CD player and a amp/receiver. CD is fine, amp is fine, FM reception is fine, DAB radio is fine, Internet radio is fine.

The problem is when streaming from music stored on my laptop. There's two choices here:-

Connect directly to music on the HDD and choose tracks via the smallish display on the Denon
Go into iTunes and, using Airplay, choose all the songs etc from the iTunes interface, then stream to the hifi

For the former, there's no problem. OK, the display is a bit tiny to see from the other side of the room, and navigation is clatty, but the sound is good, and there's no stuttering, buffering, stopping etc

So, my issue is when using iTunes and Airplay. Basically it is stuttering, buffering, stopping all the time and ruining the experience.

Thought originally that it could be down to the wireless connection. The router is in the hallway, about 30 feet from the laptop and hifi, which are in the living room. Signal strength is showing an average of 82% here. So, have just tried moving the router (via a phone extension cable) temporarily into the living room and hardwiring via LAN into the Denon - this gave 100% signal. Still got the issues though. Last thing I have tried is a LAN from the laptop to the router as well, meaning full wired connections. With this setup (which is not practical and also defeats the streaming ideal) the music flows perfectly. However, unplug the LAN from the laptop and music instantly stops. Not surprising, but weirdly, switch the wifi off on the laptop whilst leaving the physical connections and it also stops!

It would seem from all this that the wireless setup is OK, as when not using Airplay the music is fine. But with iTunes and Airplay then the issues start. I don't think there's any buffering problems with iTunes itself, as played via the laptop speakers it's fine. So it's almost as if iTunes is spitting out it's dummy unelss there is 100% perfect connection 100% of the time....?

I can find precious little about these sort of issues online, so was hoping that an expert out there might read this and give me some advice!!

uk_dave&gill · 25th May 2013, 13:46

No ideas anyone?

uk_dave&gill · 23rd November 2013, 16:56

Good grief!

I'm still struggling with this and my first post (which sadly elicited no responses!

) was in May!

Anyway, I've now moved on a little bit with this in the hope that I can get it working properly, with the addition of a Western Digital NAS drive and a semi-wired connection from hi-fi to this unit (by which I mean LAN connection through the house wiring using a pair of BT Vision Powerline Adapters)

Basically the set-up is that the iTunes server software in installed on the WD NAS drive, alongside all of the MP3 music. The NAS is physically plugged into the router (EE Brightbox) which in turn is physically plugged into one of the BT adaptors, which then makes an effective hard-wired connection to it's pair, and finally this is physically connected to the Denon Network Player. So ultimately, the Denon is physically connected to the NAS drive upon which the music is being played from, and the whole thing is controlled from my laptop, which is wirelessly linked into the circuit

So, having set this all up, I sat back smugly anticipating that I would get seamless, stutter free playback. As my previous attempts had suffered connection break-ups every 30 seconds or so, I was feeling confident when it went over a minute - but then playback had a small glitch. Now any glitch is a glitch too many, but I was even more cheesed off when, at the two minute point, playback hung completely....

To say I am dischuffed is an understatement

If there's anyone out there who can offer a crumb of advice, I will take it gratefully!

Conkerman · 25th November 2013, 11:28

OK.

Avoiding the 'don't use iTunes' reply that would be my first thought

.

Have you tried connecting everything directly to the router? Take the powerline stuff out of the equation.

That would be my first step. Start with the simplest network possible and work from there.

uk_dave&gill · 25th November 2013, 12:24

Thanks for replying!

I think you are probably right about iTunes, although I would like to keep it if possible as it provides a means to "remotely" control what the Denon is playing

It would seem that iTunes/AirPlay, or at least the part that this plays in the system may be causing the issues. The layout of the system is basically:-

Media is stored on the WD NAS, in the form of MP3's, from memory most being 192kb
The NAS is plugged into the router via a standard LAN cable
The router is plugged into a Powerlink socket, again via LAN cable
The signal is then going via the household electrical supply to the other Powerlink socket, which is connected to the Denon Network Player via another LAN cable

Operating without iTunes (ie via the Denon interface) and taking iTunes out of the loop reveals that

a) The Denon will connect to the WD NAS and stream music without my laptop even needing to be switched on
b) I can play a whole album without a single drop-out!

With this experiment completed, it would seem that I either have to put up with using the clonky Denon interface (and squinting across the room to read the display!) or to find an alternative to iTunes that I can use to operate the system/choose tracks but still leave the connections as above

The quest continues!

Conkerman · 25th November 2013, 17:56

Do you have any old routers kicking about?

A very quick google seems to suggest there are issues with airplay and certain routers.

I'll have a loom one the sprogs have been put to bed.

To add.
If you have an old router connect a computer to it and go into the menus and disable DHCP. This turns the router into a network switch.

Replace the EE router with the 'switch' and see if that works any better. I would seriously think about moving everything so you can discount an issue with the powerline adaptors.

There were definitely a few disgruntled people having drop outs with Airplay and routers seemed to be a factor.

Hope this helps, I may not have an answer straight away, but we can eliminate things one at a time!

uk_dave&gill · 18th January 2014, 13:54

Just a quick update for anyone that might be still interested......

Wondering now if a change of router would be of any use? We have a TP-Link one that worked well before we changed BB provider and were given the EE Brightbox. I'm going to try it later and see if iTunes/Airplay performance improves, but in the meantime:-

I've read that you can join two routers together, but not actually sure if this would be of any benefit?
As the Denon isn't connecting to the Internet (as in doesn't need to be connected), but is linked to the NAS drive via the local network, and also controlled with iTunes from my laptop, would it be possible to set it up on it's own network, not even plugged into the phone line? If so, would I be able to access this from my laptop and still remain online on the current network?

If suggestion #2 would work, it sort of makes sense to use this to avoid any traffic conflicts!

Also been reading that people recommend routers made by Apple for this kind of application, such as this one but wouldn't want to buy one if it was not going to help or messed up regular Internet connecting!

skull-candy18 · 26th January 2014, 00:06

I used to work in a hifi shop and I set up loads of streaming systems.
Routers were always an issue, many of our customer had to replace them.

We also never used iTunes, we used the Sonos app with Sonos gear and the Naim and Kinsky apps.
At home I'm using a western digital with tp link powerline adapters, down to a Sonos zp90 connected to a Rotel/kef system and a play 5 in a different room.

Any issue is fixed with just a reset.

SideValve · 26th January 2014, 08:35

does the demon do dlna? http://www.pcworld.com/article/24588...dows_7_pc.html

uk_dave&gill · 26th January 2014, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideValve

does the demon do dlna? http://www.pcworld.com/article/24588...dows_7_pc.html

Apparently, yes!

"DLNA Version 1.5 supported for audio network"

I've got a nasty feeling though that, although the link you have posted (for which thanks) seems to suggest a solution, it might not help in my case. It mentions Windows Media Player on Windows 7, but I'm still on Vista and I don't think I can get the relevant version of WMP to work on my system

24th May 2013, 17:44	#1
uk_dave&gill This is my second home .. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Town Posts: 4,166 Thanks: 1 Thanked 189 Times in 105 Posts	Hifi streaming issues I've fairly recently bought a Denon hifi system, centering around this Network Audio player.. (actually, I've had it since January, but as I wanted all the work on our extension to be completed before installing it, I only tried it for the first time last week......) So. Set it all up and initially had problems getting the unit to "speak" to the network due to firewall issues, but got this sorted without too much difficulty. Now the whole system comprises of the above mentioned Network Audio player, a CD player and a amp/receiver. CD is fine, amp is fine, FM reception is fine, DAB radio is fine, Internet radio is fine. The problem is when streaming from music stored on my laptop. There's two choices here:- Connect directly to music on the HDD and choose tracks via the smallish display on the Denon Go into iTunes and, using Airplay, choose all the songs etc from the iTunes interface, then stream to the hifi For the former, there's no problem. OK, the display is a bit tiny to see from the other side of the room, and navigation is clatty, but the sound is good, and there's no stuttering, buffering, stopping etc So, my issue is when using iTunes and Airplay. Basically it is stuttering, buffering, stopping all the time and ruining the experience. Thought originally that it could be down to the wireless connection. The router is in the hallway, about 30 feet from the laptop and hifi, which are in the living room. Signal strength is showing an average of 82% here. So, have just tried moving the router (via a phone extension cable) temporarily into the living room and hardwiring via LAN into the Denon - this gave 100% signal. Still got the issues though. Last thing I have tried is a LAN from the laptop to the router as well, meaning full wired connections. With this setup (which is not practical and also defeats the streaming ideal) the music flows perfectly. However, unplug the LAN from the laptop and music instantly stops. Not surprising, but weirdly, switch the wifi off on the laptop whilst leaving the physical connections and it also stops! It would seem from all this that the wireless setup is OK, as when not using Airplay the music is fine. But with iTunes and Airplay then the issues start. I don't think there's any buffering problems with iTunes itself, as played via the laptop speakers it's fine. So it's almost as if iTunes is spitting out it's dummy unelss there is 100% perfect connection 100% of the time....? I can find precious little about these sort of issues online, so was hoping that an expert out there might read this and give me some advice!! __________________ Dave

23rd November 2013, 16:56	#3
uk_dave&gill This is my second home .. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Town Posts: 4,166 Thanks: 1 Thanked 189 Times in 105 Posts	Good grief! I'm still struggling with this and my first post (which sadly elicited no responses! ) was in May! Anyway, I've now moved on a little bit with this in the hope that I can get it working properly, with the addition of a Western Digital NAS drive and a semi-wired connection from hi-fi to this unit (by which I mean LAN connection through the house wiring using a pair of BT Vision Powerline Adapters) Basically the set-up is that the iTunes server software in installed on the WD NAS drive, alongside all of the MP3 music. The NAS is physically plugged into the router (EE Brightbox) which in turn is physically plugged into one of the BT adaptors, which then makes an effective hard-wired connection to it's pair, and finally this is physically connected to the Denon Network Player. So ultimately, the Denon is physically connected to the NAS drive upon which the music is being played from, and the whole thing is controlled from my laptop, which is wirelessly linked into the circuit So, having set this all up, I sat back smugly anticipating that I would get seamless, stutter free playback. As my previous attempts had suffered connection break-ups every 30 seconds or so, I was feeling confident when it went over a minute - but then playback had a small glitch. Now any glitch is a glitch too many, but I was even more cheesed off when, at the two minute point, playback hung completely.... To say I am dischuffed is an understatement If there's anyone out there who can offer a crumb of advice, I will take it gratefully! __________________ Dave

25th November 2013, 12:24	#5
uk_dave&gill This is my second home .. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Town Posts: 4,166 Thanks: 1 Thanked 189 Times in 105 Posts	Thanks for replying! I think you are probably right about iTunes, although I would like to keep it if possible as it provides a means to "remotely" control what the Denon is playing It would seem that iTunes/AirPlay, or at least the part that this plays in the system may be causing the issues. The layout of the system is basically:- Media is stored on the WD NAS, in the form of MP3's, from memory most being 192kb The NAS is plugged into the router via a standard LAN cable The router is plugged into a Powerlink socket, again via LAN cable The signal is then going via the household electrical supply to the other Powerlink socket, which is connected to the Denon Network Player via another LAN cable Operating without iTunes (ie via the Denon interface) and taking iTunes out of the loop reveals that a) The Denon will connect to the WD NAS and stream music without my laptop even needing to be switched on b) I can play a whole album without a single drop-out! With this experiment completed, it would seem that I either have to put up with using the clonky Denon interface (and squinting across the room to read the display!) or to find an alternative to iTunes that I can use to operate the system/choose tracks but still leave the connections as above The quest continues! __________________ Dave

25th November 2013, 17:56	#6
Conkerman Regular poster Seat, Volvo and other animals. Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Oxon. Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Do you have any old routers kicking about? A very quick google seems to suggest there are issues with airplay and certain routers. I'll have a loom one the sprogs have been put to bed. To add. If you have an old router connect a computer to it and go into the menus and disable DHCP. This turns the router into a network switch. Replace the EE router with the 'switch' and see if that works any better. I would seriously think about moving everything so you can discount an issue with the powerline adaptors. There were definitely a few disgruntled people having drop outs with Airplay and routers seemed to be a factor. Hope this helps, I may not have an answer straight away, but we can eliminate things one at a time! Last edited by Conkerman; 25th November 2013 at 19:24.. Reason: Added stuff.

18th January 2014, 13:54	#7
uk_dave&gill This is my second home .. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Town Posts: 4,166 Thanks: 1 Thanked 189 Times in 105 Posts	Just a quick update for anyone that might be still interested...... Wondering now if a change of router would be of any use? We have a TP-Link one that worked well before we changed BB provider and were given the EE Brightbox. I'm going to try it later and see if iTunes/Airplay performance improves, but in the meantime:- I've read that you can join two routers together, but not actually sure if this would be of any benefit? As the Denon isn't connecting to the Internet (as in doesn't need to be connected), but is linked to the NAS drive via the local network, and also controlled with iTunes from my laptop, would it be possible to set it up on it's own network, not even plugged into the phone line? If so, would I be able to access this from my laptop and still remain online on the current network? If suggestion #2 would work, it sort of makes sense to use this to avoid any traffic conflicts! Also been reading that people recommend routers made by Apple for this kind of application, such as this one but wouldn't want to buy one if it was not going to help or messed up regular Internet connecting! __________________ Dave

25th May 2013, 13:46	#2
uk_dave&gill This is my second home .. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Town Posts: 4,166 Thanks: 1 Thanked 189 Times in 105 Posts	No ideas anyone? __________________ Dave

25th November 2013, 11:28	#4
Conkerman Regular poster Seat, Volvo and other animals. Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Oxon. Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	OK. Avoiding the 'don't use iTunes' reply that would be my first thought . Have you tried connecting everything directly to the router? Take the powerline stuff out of the equation. That would be my first step. Start with the simplest network possible and work from there.

26th January 2014, 00:06	#8
skull-candy18 Newbie Honda crx, Honda Civic, Yamaha TRX Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Kirkby-In-Ashfield Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I used to work in a hifi shop and I set up loads of streaming systems. Routers were always an issue, many of our customer had to replace them. We also never used iTunes, we used the Sonos app with Sonos gear and the Naim and Kinsky apps. At home I'm using a western digital with tp link powerline adapters, down to a Sonos zp90 connected to a Rotel/kef system and a play 5 in a different room. Any issue is fixed with just a reset.

26th January 2014, 08:35	#9
SideValve Gets stuck in Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Oxford Posts: 767 Thanks: 141 Thanked 204 Times in 141 Posts	does the demon do dlna? http://www.pcworld.com/article/24588...dows_7_pc.html __________________ The Story So Far: Austin A35, Morris Oxford, Triumph Herald, Mini 850, Mini 1000, Austin Allegro, MG Midget, MGB GT, Rover SD1 2600, Austin Maxi, Rover 200, Rover 825, Rover 800, Bedford TK, Range Rover 3.9 efi, Rover 400, Rover 100, MGF, Rover 25, Rover 75 1.8, Rover 75 Connoisseur SE 2.0 V6, MGF 1.8i, Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.0 V6 Auto, Morris Eight Series E, Morris Minor 1275.