engine differance 2.5 kv6

[clf]

Originally Posted by kev-rev180

all i know which is important to me is my 190+ is defently a much faster car the 2.5 160 as had a remap duel v8 style exhuast and induction the car as also been well looked after by its previous owners but my 190 is much faster car so thanks for all the input i look forwards to reading more as you guys know a lot more than me

dont forget the gearbox too. From what I have read on here, (havent noticed being suggested in this thread) it may hurt the top end, but should give a more relaxed cruising pace using the 160 'box.

[minimutly]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Thanks for this Huw.

According to RAVE, the 190 exhaust valve is open for exactly the same period as that on the standard Rover 177 engine. It does, however, open 4 degrees later and closes 4 degrees later.

It is difficult to be certain about the inlet valve since RAVE says that on the 190 it opens at minus 2 degrees BTDC which is a non-standard and ambiguous expression and must surely be a typo. What the figure is supposed to be is anyone’s guess.

RAVE gives a single value for maximum valve lift on “2.5 litre engines”. There is no mention of greater lift on the 190 PS variant.

Simon

Not a typo, -2 deg btdc is 2 degrees after tdc, stupid cam timing if ever there was...

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by minimutly

Not a typo, -2 deg btdc is 2 degrees after tdc, stupid cam timing if ever there was...

It certainly is Huw. Why not simply write 2 degrees ATDC?

Anyway, if that is the case then the 190’s valve period is the same as the Rover 177 Ps engine for both inlet and exhaust.

Simon

[clf]

Originally Posted by SD1too

It certainly is Huw. Why not simply write 2 degrees ATDC?

Anyway, if that is the case then the 190’s valve period is the same as the Rover 177 Ps engine for both inlet and exhaust.

Simon

I always thought the 180 engine was the same as a 190, but with the auto box, it was 'dialled' back a little via the map

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by clf

I always thought the 180 engine was the same as a 190 ...

The 180 shares the same camshafts as the 190. Whether it’s the same “engine” is a much bigger question.

... but with the auto box, it was 'dialled' back a little via the map ..

The 180 is, in reality, 177 Ps; the same as the standard Rover engine. it is possible that the de-tuning, amounting to just 13 Ps (hardly detectable in real-life driving) was achieved via the ECM but we have no evidence to confirm that.

This is my understanding. If anyone has official documentary evidence I would like to see it.

Simon

[jn12]

This technical bulletin sheds some light on the 180.

There are a few threads regarding the 180/190 on this forum and on .org. If I get some time I will try and link these to this thread.

[jn12]

Regarding if the engine is the same, take a look at this engine code chart. As a 180 owner I can confirm my engine number contain 3rd prefix of P59 which translates to 190 (Auto).

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by SD1too

The 180 shares the same camshafts as the 190. Whether it’s the same “engine” is a much bigger question.

The 180 is, in reality, 177 Ps; the same as the standard Rover engine. it is possible that the de-tuning, amounting to just 13 Ps (hardly detectable in real-life driving) was achieved via the ECM but we have no evidence to confirm that.

This is my understanding. If anyone has official documentary evidence I would like to see it.

Simon

The EMS2000 engine tune for the ZT180 is not the same as the 177PS Rover tune Simon, in fact the VN string of ZCS coding reflects very clearly 180PS, and that is the reality.

You may wish to note, this directly contradicts the text in the 180 launch bulletin contained in RAVE, another reason not to treat that particular document as gospel

I can confirm the 180 does indeed have it's own unique tune assembly, and the tuning is almost the same as the ZT190 with a few subtle modifications to the output levels at critical engine load, and the additional CANBUS messaging to the JATCO EATCU to provide smooth gearchanges.

In answer to your question about it being the "same" engine as the 190 ZT, I can answer that one for you in one word...............yes.

It shares not only the same camshafts and throttle body, it also shares the same gudgeon pins, pistons and connecting rods.

How can I qualify this? I have stripped two engines down side by side and compared the casting numbers, and measured everything accurately and found them to be identical, which was quite important as the 180 engine was then subsequently fitted to a 190.

For the OP's benefit, he should note that if he intends to fit the 190 engine into his ZT, the cars ZCS coding must be altered and the appropriate tune written to the ECM.

He cannot simply fit the donor 190 ECU as it won't run with the new car's immobiliser, but that is not an insurmountable problem, as the currently fitted NNN000170 can be reprogrammed to suit

Brian