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Old 15th January 2021, 00:48   #1
solarsailor
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Default Is your DNA safe?

I watched a true crime programme called Bloodline Detectives on Quest Red last night where they were trying to solve a murder that took place in 1982 in the USA. Law enforcement had the DNA of both the suspect and the victim (who remained unidentified) but there were no records on the database at that time.

The police kept trying to find a match which might help in identifying the victim periodically over the years as the DNA database grew - even going as far as to spread the search worldwide - but didn't have any luck. So in 2019 they decided to check all the records held by private genealogy companies of people who had submitted DNA samples while trying to trace their roots and any possible relatives. Lo and behold they initially discovered a second cousin, and by a process of cross matching the second cousin's DNA to other records they managed to build a comprehensive family tree - which in turn allowed them to positively identify the murdered woman after 37 years.

Having had a result, the police then decided to try the same process (using the databases of genealogy companies) to see if they could identify the murderer and that too was a success - although it turned out that the perpetrator had topped himself in jail while being held on suspicion of three other murders.

I don't know for sure, but as far as I'm aware the UK police do not have the authority to check the records held on sites such as ancestry.co.uk and myheritage.com when searching for suspects.

Now I certainly wouldn't want to see the police using private DNA records to track down fare dodgers or someone who's nicked a Mars bar from the corner shop, but does anyone think that in special cases where a DNA profile can be unequivocally linked to a murder, act of terrorism or other heinous crime they should be allowed access to this information?

Personally I can't make my mind up on this one.
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Old 15th January 2021, 07:17   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarsailor View Post
I watched a true crime programme called Bloodline Detectives on Quest Red last night where they were trying to solve a murder that took place in 1982 in the USA. Law enforcement had the DNA of both the suspect and the victim (who remained unidentified) but there were no records on the database at that time.

The police kept trying to find a match which might help in identifying the victim periodically over the years as the DNA database grew - even going as far as to spread the search worldwide - but didn't have any luck. So in 2019 they decided to check all the records held by private genealogy companies of people who had submitted DNA samples while trying to trace their roots and any possible relatives. Lo and behold they initially discovered a second cousin, and by a process of cross matching the second cousin's DNA to other records they managed to build a comprehensive family tree - which in turn allowed them to positively identify the murdered woman after 37 years.

Having had a result, the police then decided to try the same process (using the databases of genealogy companies) to see if they could identify the murderer and that too was a success - although it turned out that the perpetrator had topped himself in jail while being held on suspicion of three other murders.

I don't know for sure, but as far as I'm aware the UK police do not have the authority to check the records held on sites such as ancestry.co.uk and myheritage.com when searching for suspects.

Now I certainly wouldn't want to see the police using private DNA records to track down fare dodgers or someone who's nicked a Mars bar from the corner shop, but does anyone think that in special cases where a DNA profile can be unequivocally linked to a murder, act of terrorism or other heinous crime they should be allowed access to this information?

Personally I can't make my mind up on this one.
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Old 15th January 2021, 07:26   #3
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The Criminal Law in the United Kingdom creates layers of criminality, especially evident in the actions of Law Enforcement agencies allowed. The term "arrestable" empowers those agencies and are related to where a trial would take place and the length of imprisonment a guilty person could be given.

Any access to databases is governed by the aforementioned and I have no doubt, future access would have to be assessed on that; laws not guidance would have to be passed to allow access. Obviously, access to and use of the database could be applied for through the Attorney Generals Office and therefore the Upper Courts.

Though one would not expect a villain to reveal links by submitting details to a database, the ability to understand those possible future links, may not be clear to some.

Last edited by planenut; 15th January 2021 at 07:30..
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Old 15th January 2021, 07:30   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarsailor View Post
I don't know for sure, but as far as I'm aware the UK police do not have the authority to check the records held on sites such as ancestry.co.uk and myheritage.com when searching for suspects.

Now I certainly wouldn't want to see the police using private DNA records to track down fare dodgers or someone who's nicked a Mars bar from the corner shop, but does anyone think that in special cases where a DNA profile can be unequivocally linked to a murder, act of terrorism or other heinous crime they should be allowed access to this information?

Personally I can't make my mind up on this one.
They never used to take DNA unless convicted. Now it is taken before any proceedings are undertaken. If this has been allowed to happen you can be certain any other DNA banks will have to provide, probably by court order to begin with.

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Old 15th January 2021, 09:37   #5
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oh god the human rights people are going to throw a wobbly at the suggestion.


This is a can of worms but yes I support the divulging of information for such crimes.
It would be vital that any request for information can be shown to be for a specific crime such as murder and not fare dodging.

How about a DNA database "from birth" or "at arrival in the country"?
We have perhaps all seen a film where DNA is replaced or planted.

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Old 15th January 2021, 10:19   #6
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......

How about a DNA database "from birth" or "at arrival in the country"?.......

macafee2
Oh, my. You'll wake up all the do gooders as well as the human rights folks .

Oddly enough, in my several decades of life, I've never had a "knock on the door" from the boys in blue (should that be the persons in blue?) and neither have any of my friends, colleagues or acquaintances.

Yet for some it seems to happen very frequently. What are they doing that regularly brings them to the attention of the Police I wonder?

Personally I have no issues with a database from birth or arrival in the country. With the proviso that you get a copy of the results so that you can compare the results for any future event.

Crucially it can be used to absolutely rule you OUT of something. If you weren't there and weren't involved then your DNA won't be there.

If what you do is legal and you are truthful I struggle to understand the resistance.

If, however, you are a murderer, rapist, drug dealer, people smuggler, fraudster etc. etc. then I can see why you'd be less than happy.

And to really play devils advocate and as we're on a car forum - how about the number of drivers who've had "someone else" pass their test for them? Perhaps DNA could be taken at the test centre before the test and matched to the records? And again at any "incident" to confirm identity?

Oh, what a can of worms - I wonder if you can identify each worm from its DNA .
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Last edited by AndyN01; 15th January 2021 at 10:23..
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Old 15th January 2021, 10:53   #7
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I wonder if they will av a IT blunder and then wipe 150,000 of th data base. Or give th data away (Buy accident) to some one else to clone/miss use....

Iv now got something else to worry about whilst th world warms up....

Ps, Does th super markets av any bread. Our's didn't this week...... and on and on it goes.
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Old 15th January 2021, 12:28   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil th Barrow View Post
I wonder if they will av a IT blunder and then wipe 150,000 of th data base. Or give th data away (Buy accident) to some one else to clone/miss use....

Iv now got something else to worry about whilst th world warms up....

Ps, Does th super markets av any bread. Our's didn't this week...... and on and on it goes.
Very good points above - also hackers could alter the info for any given person or by the shed load.

Kev
p.s.
All the s/markets I've visited
recently no longer stock full
fat milk in one pint containers.
Co-Op does as do the odd
independent but all complain
their full orders are not met.
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Old 15th January 2021, 15:11   #9
macafee2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil th Barrow View Post
I wonder if they will av a IT blunder and then wipe 150,000 of th data base. Or give th data away (Buy accident) to some one else to clone/miss use....

Iv now got something else to worry about whilst th world warms up....

Ps, Does th super markets av any bread. Our's didn't this week...... and on and on it goes.
You make valid points but I would not want to not consider the database.

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