Fan problems

beavis · 2nd February 2021, 17:47

Hello, I have Rover 75 v6 2.0 petrol from 2002.
My fan seems to work at high speed only. Kicking in at ~109, cutting off at ~104.
I thought that it is a three speed fan but my control box in the fan assembly has only two relays - a small and a big one. The fan has three wires.
The fan assembly doesn't have a resistor.
I'm the second owner so only God knows what has been done to it.
Am I missing the resistor? Could it be just brushes?
Photos:
"Siemens 232-65033-01"

SD1too · 2nd February 2021, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by beavis

Am I missing the resistor? Could it be just brushes?

Thanks for the excellent information Ivan.

Someone has fitted a 2 speed system from an early 1.8 litre car (it doesn't use a resistor) to your V6. However it should work so I think the most likely explanation is that the earth brush has worn down to minimum.

If you're handy with a soldering iron you can buy a set of new brushes for £20 (plus postage) which is by far the most economical and satisfactory repair. Let me know if you need further details.

Simon

beavis · 2nd February 2021, 20:04

Hello Simon, thank so much for the answer!
I will try to change the brushes. I’m far from Uk so I’ll try to stock them locally.
I red that the material is M17 but the internet seems unaware what that means.
I have the dimensions so I’ll try to buy bigger once and polish them down to the correct size.
A local producer said the brushed for the car industry are normally stiffer and are made from metal-carbon or metal-graphite. I guess I’ll do what I can.

Arctic · 2nd February 2021, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by beavis

Hello Simon, thank so much for the answer!
I will try to change the brushes. I’m far from Uk so I’ll try to stock them locally.
I red that the material is M17 but the internet seems unaware what that means.
I have the dimensions so I’ll try to buy bigger once and polish them down to the correct size.
A local producer said the brushed for the car industry are normally stiffer and are made from metal-carbon or metal-graphite. I guess I’ll do what I can.

HI Ivan.
You can purchase the brushes from the link below which Simon did a thread on sometime back.

https://www.ecp.co.uk/rover75-carbon-brushes.php

vitesse · 2nd February 2021, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arctic

HI Ivan.
You can purchase the brushes from the link below which Simon did a thread on sometime back.

https://www.ecp.co.uk/rover75-carbon-brushes.php

If you don't mind getting ripped off on overseas postage, click the drop down menu and see the difference. Sorry, I know I've mentioned it before but even Simon agrees its excessive.

Regards

ps. Bought my brushes from Germany, don't have the link unfortunately

beavis · 3rd February 2021, 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitesse

Bought my brushes from Germany, don't have the link unfortunately

https://www.ecp.co.uk/electric_motors_generators.php
Looking at this page the M17 doesn’t even exists, so what material did you get it from?

vitesse · 3rd February 2021, 04:48

Here's where I got my brushes (found the link), cheaper, much better postage rates and you don't need to order a set of four - you are unlikely to need more than one or two.

https://www.old-germany.de/ecommerce...g2s1smq9p6pq86

Regards

SD1too · 3rd February 2021, 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by beavis

I will try to change the brushes. I’m far from Uk so I’ll try to stock them locally ... I’ll try to buy bigger once and polish them down to the correct size.

Don't do that Ivan! Other people have bought brushes from eBay and they fail very quickly. Also, the brushes are enclosed in a metal tube and have the braided cable bonded into them which runs in a slot in the tube. You are asking for trouble if you attempt to change the size.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arctic

https://www.ecp.co.uk/rover75-carbon-brushes.php

These brushes are custom-made in the UK by Engineering Carbon Products Ltd. Club member and moderator Greeners found the company and I sent them a sample brush whose dimensions they copied exactly using M17 grade material. ECP shaped the contact surface for perfect conductivity to the commutator so, as you can see, they are a high quality product.

As vitesse says, you'll pay an extra £13.31 for delivery by international air mail. Parcel2Go, the company which I use, quotes a minimum of £15 to send a jiffy bag to you in Bulgaria (and it's the same for Sweden where vitesse lives). A company such as ECP Ltd. is more likely to use Parcelforce which charges £22.94! So for Bulgaria, £13.31 is a price that I couldn't better.

Vitesse is quite right that you won't need a set of four, more likely one or two. The material used isn't given on the German website. I see that a pair costs €18.42. What's their delivery charge to Ivan in Bulgaria Mike?

Simon

Mike Noc · 3rd February 2021, 08:14

Ivan before you buy the brushes might be worth dismantling the motor and checking the condition of the brush holders - I've had one motor that had burnt out and needed far more than just brushes.

beavis · 3rd February 2021, 08:23

Hello!
Thanks to everyone for the help!
I opened the motor. Here are some photos.

There is a photo of a new 5x10x20 graphite brush - it fits perfectly but the material quality is unknown. I think I can buy a better quality (harder) 5x10x20 brushes.

But this is not the only problem. As I opened the box, a red-ish little guy was laying around

you'll see that.
Any Idea where it goes and is it needed for my 2 speeds 3 cable motor?

2nd February 2021, 17:47	#1
beavis Newbie Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Pleven Posts: 22 Thanks: 16 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Fan problems v6 2.0 petrol Hello, I have Rover 75 v6 2.0 petrol from 2002. My fan seems to work at high speed only. Kicking in at ~109, cutting off at ~104. I thought that it is a three speed fan but my control box in the fan assembly has only two relays - a small and a big one. The fan has three wires. The fan assembly doesn't have a resistor. I'm the second owner so only God knows what has been done to it. Am I missing the resistor? Could it be just brushes? Photos: "Siemens 232-65033-01" Last edited by beavis; 2nd February 2021 at 18:02..

3rd February 2021, 08:23	#10
beavis Newbie Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Pleven Posts: 22 Thanks: 16 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Hello! Thanks to everyone for the help! I opened the motor. Here are some photos. There is a photo of a new 5x10x20 graphite brush - it fits perfectly but the material quality is unknown. I think I can buy a better quality (harder) 5x10x20 brushes. But this is not the only problem. As I opened the box, a red-ish little guy was laying around you'll see that. Any Idea where it goes and is it needed for my 2 speeds 3 cable motor? Last edited by beavis; 3rd February 2021 at 08:53..

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2nd February 2021, 20:04	#3
beavis Newbie Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Pleven Posts: 22 Thanks: 16 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Hello Simon, thank so much for the answer! I will try to change the brushes. I’m far from Uk so I’ll try to stock them locally. I red that the material is M17 but the internet seems unaware what that means. I have the dimensions so I’ll try to buy bigger once and polish them down to the correct size. A local producer said the brushed for the car industry are normally stiffer and are made from metal-carbon or metal-graphite. I guess I’ll do what I can.

3rd February 2021, 04:48	#7
vitesse I really should get out more....... Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Gävle Posts: 2,526 Thanks: 395 Thanked 823 Times in 652 Posts	Here's where I got my brushes (found the link), cheaper, much better postage rates and you don't need to order a set of four - you are unlikely to need more than one or two. https://www.old-germany.de/ecommerce...g2s1smq9p6pq86 Regards

3rd February 2021, 08:14	#9
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,544 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	Ivan before you buy the brushes might be worth dismantling the motor and checking the condition of the brush holders - I've had one motor that had burnt out and needed far more than just brushes.