Virtual T4/ P-Scan / Toaf software

[prebenny]

In fact coolcat I don't deny that they have right to get money for what they made (and sometimes I don't understand why Marcin Misek wont get money for his work). But I'll repeat again - I don't believe vt4 couldn't be made (or even wasn't made) ealier so more people could have access to it (the legality part is pretty much explained by pscan.eu which also is dodgy in my mind).

What's more - I'm pretty sure if VT4 was available earlier then TOAF wouldn't exist right now because all it does could be done by VT4. And as i said before I don't believe in coincidences like that it's available at this point when info about TOAF spreaded.

Originally Posted by coolcat

Remember these people pay to be on here and advertise their services/products and then someone comes on and says......."Don't buy that, I'll do it for free" I don't see that as entirely fair either

And about this part - we are just giving option. You can do whatever You like and that they paid for ad here doesn't change anything. VW also made ad's how clean and good are their diesels and in the end it was 'Der Schwindel' instead of 'Das auto' (not defending VW but in fact the diesel eco standards are far from reality - a little bit of offtopic).

[coolcat]

Originally Posted by Jakg

As TOAF should be a free product I can't see why this would be an issue.

The issue would be trying to discredit traders who have spent a lot of time, money and effort into helping keep our cars on the road by passing comments about £150 when they will offer it all for free!

If someone came on here offering to fit car radios for free and denouncing my charges I would not be best pleased whatsoever !

Nothing wrong with anyone offering such services but to make comments about those charging for it in a negative light isn't cricket!

Why should the traders pay to advertise when others seem to be able to do it for nowt.....regardless of whether monies change hands it will have a negative effect on the profits of paid up traders

[coolcat]

Originally Posted by prebenny

In fact coolcat I don't deny that they have right to get money for what they made (and sometimes I don't understand why Marcin Misek wont get money for his work). But I'll repeat again - I don't believe vt4 couldn't be made (or even wasn't made) ealier so more people could have access to it (the legality part is pretty much explained by pscan.eu which also is dodgy in my mind).

What's more - I'm pretty sure if VT4 was available earlier then TOAF wouldn't exist right now because all it does could be done by VT4. And as i said before I don't believe in coincidences like that it's available at this point when info about TOAF spreaded.



And about this part - we are just giving option. You can do whatever You like and that they paid for ad here doesn't change anything. VW also made ad's how clean and good are their diesels and in the end it was 'Der Schwindel' instead of 'Das auto' (not defending VW but in fact the diesel eco standards are far from reality - a little bit of offtopic).

I'm sorry but I completely disagree !

I'm really not happy about this, although it doesn't effect me personally I feel that the traders are being ridden roughshod over this and I shall be making my feelings known to the team.

[Monty Hotspur]

Problem I have with freeware is you are relying on the enthusiasm of the coder to develop an app that has no bugs and is updated/improved. Giving something away is all very nice and altruistic and fluffy but I've seen too many of these free software packages get to v1 and go nowhere afterwards - the person doing the coding loses interest or gets fed up with spending all their time dishing out free support to users and decides to pack it in.

[humphshumphs]

Originally Posted by Monty Hotspur

Problem I have with freeware is you are relying on the enthusiasm of the coder to develop an app that has no bugs and is updated/improved. Giving something away is all very nice and altruistic and fluffy but I've seen too many of these free software packages get to v1 and go nowhere afterwards - the person doing the coding loses interest or gets fed up with spending all their time dishing out free support to users and decides to pack it in.

Very true. Free software just about always ends up not being supported or updated.

[prebenny]

These are Your feelings and I respect them - doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

I'll just repeat myself - if there was a tool (even sold by them) that would allow a plain user to change his car configuration TOAF would probably never exist (because it simply wouldn't be needed). As such it wasn't good business for all people with T4 to allow people having their own 'T4' (even though many people wanted tool which would allow them to change car configuration) so then TOAF raised. Every action results in reaction. It was a gamble. There was small probability to find man like Marcin Misek who has the knowledge how to do it and time (over a year) to actually do it. They gambled - they lost (even though I don't support releasing TOAF for free - the man spent a lot of his time to do it and I it's matter of respect for him, for his time and for the great job he made - there will be 'donate' button and trust me - I'll surely use it).

Originally Posted by Monty Hotspur

Problem I have with freeware is you are relying on the enthusiasm of the coder to develop an app that has no bugs and is updated/improved. Giving something away is all very nice and altruistic and fluffy but I've seen too many of these free software packages get to v1 and go nowhere afterwards - the person doing the coding loses interest or gets fed up with spending all their time dishing out free support to users and decides to pack it in.

That's why we want to release it when we are sure there are no bugs at all (surely people will find ones, but the fewer the better). Can't speak what is gonna happen in future - can only speak what is happening now.

[Jakg]

Originally Posted by coolcat

I consider it unfair that Phil and others have invested much time and their own money to service our community here and then it to be undermined by others offering to do everything for nothing!

Remember these people pay to be on here and advertise their services/products and then someone comes on and says......."Don't buy that, I'll do it for free" I don't see that as entirely fair either

Ps, Pscan is selling a product and is a trader so no problems there

I'm not belittling the work that the above members have put in, but really, someones trying to give something away for free and people want to moan?!

Originally Posted by Monty Hotspur

Problem I have with freeware is you are relying on the enthusiasm of the coder to develop an app that has no bugs and is updated/improved. Giving something away is all very nice and altruistic and fluffy but I've seen too many of these free software packages get to v1 and go nowhere afterwards - the person doing the coding loses interest or gets fed up with spending all their time dishing out free support to users and decides to pack it in.

Originally Posted by humphshumphs

Very true. Free software just about always ends up not being supported or updated.

I would like to hope the product would be open source to allow others to "take the reigns" if needed. I could understand if it's not, though.

[humphshumphs]

Originally Posted by prebenny

That's why we want to release it when we are sure there are no bugs at all (surely people will find ones, but the fewer the better). Can't speak what is gonna happen in future - can only speak what is happening now.

Hmm... it's probably going to be long time before release then. Microsoft spent thousands of dollars and have hundreds if not thousands of testers out there testing software (and look at Windows 10 - got lots of bugs!!!)

[longer86]

pscan.eu, TOAF is albo written from nothing, no T4 software are used to do this. Only thinking an writing. There is only one advantage Or disadvantage, for now works with 75/ZT cars

[coolcat]

Originally Posted by prebenny

These are Your feelings and I respect them - doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

I'll just repeat myself - if there was a tool (even sold by them) that would allow a plain user to change his car configuration TOAF would probably never exist (because it simply wouldn't be needed). As such it wasn't good business for all people with T4 to allow people having their own 'T4' (even though many people wanted tool which would allow them to change car configuration) so then TOAF raised. Every action results in reaction. It was a gamble. There was small probability to find man like Marcin Misek who has the knowledge how to do it and time (over a year) to actually do it. They gambled - they lost (even though I don't support releasing TOAF for free - the man spent a lot of his time to do it and I it's matter of respect for him, for his time and for the great job he made - there will be 'donate' button and trust me - I'll surely use it).



That's why we want to release it when we are sure there are no bugs at all (surely people will find ones, but the fewer the better). Can't speak what is gonna happen in future - can only speak what is happening now.

I have no problem if your 'man, with no voice' wants to charge.
What he should be doing however is paying traders fees !
It is fundamentally not right that he/you can advertise a product which is in direct competition with the T4 guys and P.Scan who are paying to advertise their product on here
It makes no difference if you/he offer it for free, you are competing against traders who are having to pay for advertising on here for you to then take trade from them !

If you stood outside the doors of a shop selling Apples giving yours away for free I'm sure the shop owner would do something about it !