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Old 4th February 2021, 10:42   #21
hst125
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Originally Posted by macafee2 View Post
Oh how I hate solid floors and stud walls in a house, so difficult to re-plumb and re-wire.

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I think I’ll be ok with the solid floor, just have to chase out a channel for a soil so I can get a cloakroom in, that’ll also enable a move of kitchen to the back. Then I can drop the artex covered ceiling in and lay all the plumbing from below, also giving me a chance to lay new downlighters. The intention is to delete the separate upstairs WC and build a new airing cupboard next to that, so we can still have DHW and CH whilst that’s being laid. Then move the bathroom wall to enlarge it and reinstate the upstairs WC. Gas, soil stack and gable end are all in the right place to do the work whilst the old system is in place, then a case of one last pressure flush, replace old panel rads with modern convector rads, magna clean inline and and flush & fill.
Sounds easy, watch it go to pieces!
Biggest ball ache is getting rid of plasterboard these days, costs more than new sheets and a day for a plasterer..


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Old 4th February 2021, 11:18   #22
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Originally Posted by hst125 View Post
I think I’ll be ok with the solid floor, just have to chase out a channel for a soil so I can get a cloakroom in, that’ll also enable a move of kitchen to the back. Then I can drop the artex covered ceiling in and lay all the plumbing from below, also giving me a chance to lay new downlighters. The intention is to delete the separate upstairs WC and build a new airing cupboard next to that, so we can still have DHW and CH whilst that’s being laid. Then move the bathroom wall to enlarge it and reinstate the upstairs WC. Gas, soil stack and gable end are all in the right place to do the work whilst the old system is in place, then a case of one last pressure flush, replace old panel rads with modern convector rads, magna clean inline and and flush & fill.
Sounds easy, watch it go to pieces!
Biggest ball ache is getting rid of plasterboard these days, costs more than new sheets and a day for a plasterer..

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Still with solid floors, downstairs CH and cabling comes from above.
If you have a doorway between to radiators you have to go back up and over and then down again.
With stud walls I think the piping and cabling is hidden in the wall but what happens if you want to move rads or sockets? Stud walls, cheap fast erection but for me it does not scream quality. Hanging anything of weight or value on a stud wall, scary

My daughter looked at a house last week, every wall upstairs and down is solid.

Pulling the ceiling down and working from below is a good idea.
Be carful going through a solid floor as you may go through a damp proof course.

wife and I are in out 3rd house, each one has needed rewiring and new heating so I know what you are going through.
My daughter is in her 3rd house and has done similar, the 3rd house she wrecked and then put it back together

good luck

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Old 5th February 2021, 11:10   #23
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I think most of the internal walls are solid, and the existing rads are in good locations. Many of the rads have twin pipes coming out of the wall so easy to resize. If the existing pipe work is thick wall I’m loathe to remove it as it’s much better, should be able to flush selectively.


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Old 5th February 2021, 14:31   #24
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Fair comment but maybe I should have qualified it with “on balance”, I just hadn’t found any accurate data/timescale for the shift away from gas. The house is simply too difficult to fully insulate, and my budget is limited. As I mentioned at the outset the boiler is almost expired, and if there was a viable alternative solution I could have simply gone onto immersion, and Glen radiators if needed whilst working on it.
Sadly with part tiled elevations, elderly uPvc windows, solid floors and probably no cavity insulation, the house efficiency will be so poor it’s not practical to pursue air source etc.
I may consider solar panels at some point as the rear roof is ideal, but that’s for another day.
Looks like it’ll be a system boiler up in the gable end loft, and working on the internal layout a good sized unvented cylinder in a slightly different location to the other one so I can enlarge the bathroom.


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There's much to consider when fitting a new boiler, how big is the house, how many rooms etc. I've always found that putting a boiler in the loft wastes a lot of money, you turn on the tap in the kitchen and the boiler fires up to send the water around thirty feet to the tap, you use what you need and then when the tap is turned off there's thirty feet of hot water in the pipe from the loft, it's passed through the boiler and then sits in the pipes going cold.
The best place for a boiler is midway between the kitchen and bathroom, it's not always easy to find such an ideal spot though. The old type boilers that have a cylinder in a cupboard are very old hat and not very effective at saving money, a modern combi condenser will be around 93% efficient and that means you'll lose 7 pence out of the £1 you spend on gas, an old system might be as low as 50% and you're throwing money away with one. In my house I have a 17 year old boiler that's still going very well, the % output is listed as fairly low on the Sedbuk chart but every pipe in my house is lagged with the foam covers, I then foil tape wrapped them all and there is no heat going to waste from them, I feel nothing when I put my hand on them, many people don't realise that a pipe that's not insulated is just wasting gas.
The choice of boiler is a personal one, many say Worcester Bosch but I have much respect for the Biasi range, very well made and better value. The Biasi boilers I've put in over the years have lasted very well, the one in my parents house is over 12 years old now.
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Old 5th February 2021, 14:49   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saga Lout View Post
There's much to consider when fitting a new boiler, how big is the house, how many rooms etc. I've always found that putting a boiler in the loft wastes a lot of money, you turn on the tap in the kitchen and the boiler fires up to send the water around thirty feet to the tap, you use what you need and then when the tap is turned off there's thirty feet of hot water in the pipe from the loft, it's passed through the boiler and then sits in the pipes going cold.
The best place for a boiler is midway between the kitchen and bathroom, it's not always easy to find such an ideal spot though. The old type boilers that have a cylinder in a cupboard are very old hat and not very effective at saving money, a modern combi condenser will be around 93% efficient and that means you'll lose 7 pence out of the £1 you spend on gas, an old system might be as low as 50% and you're throwing money away with one. In my house I have a 17 year old boiler that's still going very well, the % output is listed as fairly low on the Sedbuk chart but every pipe in my house is lagged with the foam covers, I then foil tape wrapped them all and there is no heat going to waste from them, I feel nothing when I put my hand on them, many people don't realise that a pipe that's not insulated is just wasting gas.
The choice of boiler is a personal one, many say Worcester Bosch but I have much respect for the Biasi range, very well made and better value. The Biasi boilers I've put in over the years have lasted very well, the one in my parents house is over 12 years old now.
old hat and cylinder means warm airing cupboard that can be used for drying I have wondered if the hot water cylinder could be replaced with a radiator and run from the central heating.

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Old 5th February 2021, 14:56   #26
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I have wondered if the hot water cylinder could be replaced with a radiator and run from the central heating.

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Done this many a time when installing combination boilers, you can even assign it to its own zone so it has separate times.
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Old 5th February 2021, 16:28   #27
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I would advise against an intelligent thermostat, we had a new system fitted a couple of years ago and the engineer recommended we had one. It seems to spend most of its time trying not to have the heating on in various ways, delayed start, switching it off half an hour before and the final annoyance it only allows the boiler to be on for 20mins at a time even if the house has not reached the desired temp. Luckily all these crazy functions can be switched off but it now acts as a standard thermostat sowas a waist of money.
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Old 5th February 2021, 17:55   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saga Lout View Post
There's much to consider when fitting a new boiler, how big is the house, how many rooms etc. I've always found that putting a boiler in the loft wastes a lot of money, you turn on the tap in the kitchen and the boiler fires up to send the water around thirty feet to the tap, you use what you need and then when the tap is turned off there's thirty feet of hot water in the pipe from the loft, it's passed through the boiler and then sits in the pipes going cold.
The best place for a boiler is midway between the kitchen and bathroom, it's not always easy to find such an ideal spot though. The old type boilers that have a cylinder in a cupboard are very old hat and not very effective at saving money, a modern combi condenser will be around 93% efficient and that means you'll lose 7 pence out of the £1 you spend on gas, an old system might be as low as 50% and you're throwing money away with one. In my house I have a 17 year old boiler that's still going very well, the % output is listed as fairly low on the Sedbuk chart but every pipe in my house is lagged with the foam covers, I then foil tape wrapped them all and there is no heat going to waste from them, I feel nothing when I put my hand on them, many people don't realise that a pipe that's not insulated is just wasting gas.
The choice of boiler is a personal one, many say Worcester Bosch but I have much respect for the Biasi range, very well made and better value. The Biasi boilers I've put in over the years have lasted very well, the one in my parents house is over 12 years old now.

I’m with you on most points here, that’s what we did here 14 yrs ago, ripped out the Primatic!!! Cylinder, replaced with a loft mounted Vaillant Eco Tech. Has done remarkably well, only had to repressurise the vessel a couple of times, but it’s a long way from it to the kitchen sink, not so bad for the bathroom and the remote shower mixer is in the loft next to it.
We replaced the cylinder with a small radiator to dry stuff and warm the towels.
As a four bed semi (same as now) but with just me and mrs there full time, it could be close between combi and pressurised. Will have to measure the landing to see what walls can be moved and where it all could fit. Would couple nicely to existing pipes if we went that route.
Final decision soon after moving in then..


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Old 5th February 2021, 19:21   #29
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Only twice outside of my house have I seen a hot water "ring main". Hot water pumped from the cylinder to other rooms and back to the cylinder. This means when the hot tap is opened hot water only has to travel "5" feet

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Old 5th February 2021, 20:15   #30
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I’m with you on most points here, that’s what we did here 14 yrs ago, ripped out the Primatic!!! Cylinder,

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Oooo Primatic cylinder, ( power to your bubble ) try explaining that one to the combi chuckers. It was hard enough trying to explain why the hot water return had to be the last return into the system on a Y plan.
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