Try to help but get told to pay traders fees?

Jamiewelch · 26th August 2018, 09:23

Every time there has been something I have wanted to try and help with on this forum in the past, I have been reluctant to do so because as soon as someone does they get told they have to pay traders fees!

Right so, I have the VT4, can do ZCS coding, 116 to 135, 160 to 177. And coding in things such as BBUS, Cruise etc. This is not my main source on income, and would only be able to do it occasionally if someone really needed it doing.

I saw the T4 map had gone up so got in touch with Steve about going on the map (can't fault the guy, this post isn't aimed at him in any way!). To be told that the people higher up have said that I can't be listed because I don't pay traders fees.

Just to make it clear, I wouldn't be pushing services, wouldn't be putting threads up saying I offer this and that. All I wanted was to be put on the map as there isn't really anyone around the midlands that is offering to plug a T4 into peoples cars. I just thought it would be nice for people around here to know that someone is more local if they wanted something as simple as giving the car a quick health check. Testing fan speeds. Checking injector compensation etc.

With this club quite often if anyone tries to offer something to people they immediately get told to stop or pay traders fees. I didn't think the point of a car club is for people to make money? I thought it was to try and help each other with common issues and sources to parts. And possible ways to have parts re-manufactured that are no longer available.

Does everyone think that this is a fair thing to do?

Bogbrush82 · 26th August 2018, 09:27

I assumed you only had to pay traders fees it it WAS a main source of income?

Jamiewelch · 26th August 2018, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogbrush82

I assumed you only had to pay traders fees it it WAS a main source of income?

That's what I would have thought? Or if you were making a significant amount from it. I would have been putting threads up offering services. I would have been listed if people wanted to try and find someone local.

GordyB · 26th August 2018, 09:50

I think there has to be some common sense. It depends on how you are setup, what you are charging and how much work you are doing.

There's a big difference between doing 1 car a month to help someone out for a tenner or a pack of beers, to someone setup properly with trade insurance, public liability insurance and charging the same as other T4 guys.

I don't think it's anything to do with main source of income as some of the T4 guys have other jobs as well. A lot of the traders don't make much money from it but their fees help the club survive.

What we don't want, is for someone such as yourself to not offer services as he is paying more in traders fees than he is making helping people, thus the help to people in your area wouldn't be there because of the club rules.

All just my opinion of course, I've no idea how the rules are made/changed or why they were put in force in the first place.

Jamiewelch · 26th August 2018, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordyB

I think there has to be some common sense. It depends on how you are setup, what you are charging and how much work you are doing.

There's a big difference between doing 1 car a month to help someone out for a tenner or a pack of beers, to someone setup properly with trade insurance, public liability insurance and charging the same as other T4 guys.

I don't think it's anything to do with main source of income as some of the T4 guys have other jobs as well. A lot of the traders don't make much money from it but their fees help the club survive.

What we don't want, is for someone such as yourself to not offer services as he is paying more in traders fees than he is making helping people, thus the help to people in your area wouldn't be there because of the club rules.

All just my opinion of course, I've no idea how the rules are made/changed or why they were put in force in the first place.

It would be more the helping out for a drink kind of thing. I wouldn't be in it for the money. As long as I am free and not busy I honestly wouldn't mind helping people with things such as fault code reading, dealer options, and if I have time ZCS coding for things like remote boot release, cruise activation etc.

If someone were to offer a drink for it then I wouldn't say no. The only time I would ask for money would be if I were to travel to someone to cover fuel which I think would be fair. But people would need to know I don't have much free time so would only be as and when I can do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Noc

I would have thought it is pretty obvious that if you want to trade on this forum you have to pay traders' fees full stop.

If you just want to help out on the forum then offer your services for free - many of us do.

Sorry but I didn't mention anything about trading on the forum. So say if I had some parts made that were no longer available and wanted to sell them on here without being a trader, I wouldn't be able to unless I sold them at cost price? Regardless of the time / money spent on getting them reproduced?

Mike Noc · 26th August 2018, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamiewelch

Sorry but I didn't mention anything about trading on the forum. So say if I had some parts made that were no longer available and wanted to sell them on here without being a trader, I wouldn't be able to unless I sold them at cost price? Regardless of the time / money spent on getting them reproduced?

You most certainly did:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamiewelch

Right so, I have the VT4, can do ZCS coding, 116 to 135, 160 to 177. And coding in things such as BBUS, Cruise etc. This is not my main source on income...….

If you are taking any income out of it then you are trading.

If you want to offer free services then fine - many people do this with no problem at all; Harry and Steve (Arctic) spring to mind.

As far as I know you are free to offer parts or cars for sale if you are a member, so no problems there - of course you have to pay to be a member!

sworks · 26th August 2018, 10:10

The rules tend to be quite strict, I’m guessing that it’s not how little you do but the fact that for every car you look at a trader who pays to advertise isn’t getting that custom. With this post everybody now knows that you have a T4 and where you are located so I’m guessing you will get pm’s anyway.

Mike Noc · 26th August 2018, 09:50

I would have thought it is pretty obvious that if you want to trade on this forum you have to pay traders' fees full stop.

If you just want to help out on the forum then offer your services for free - many of us do.

Arctic · 26th August 2018, 10:17

Jamie I have my T4 and can do everything with as you can with your VT4, it never see the light of day unless I am using it on my car, but as I stated on the thread to which the MAP is attached it is not for commercial use.

Also you have to be careful as once you are on the MAP you may well get an influx of members whom might need help, how would you cope ? you know your self you can not do everything for free, also you would need in place the aftercare if something was to go wrong.

I doubt a member whom came to your house is going to sign a disclaimer as they do at the Nano if the session was to go wrong and it can happen, what if the car got bricked.

The member would need his car to put back as it was before, sometimes a part maybe needed to sort out the problem you would need to carry that, if you were going to help them sort it out at that time, most members know that they can come to the Nano meet for health checks, and are willing to wait in fact quite a few have an health check at every meet

Stick as you are is my opinion and help out at the Nano with your VT4 in fact we could have a talk about using my full T4 at the Nano to help cover Duncan.

Jamiewelch · 26th August 2018, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arctic

Jamie I have my T4 and can do everything with as you can with your VT4, it never see the light of day unless I am using it on my car, but as I stated on the thread to which the MAP is attached it is not for commercial use.

Also you have to be careful as once you are on the MAP you may well get an influx of members whom might need help, how would you cope ? you know your self you can not do everything for free, also you would need in place the aftercare if something was to go wrong.

I doubt a member whom came to your house is going to sign a disclaimer as they do at the Nano if the session was to go wrong and it can happen, what if the car got bricked.

The member would need his car to put back as it was before, sometimes a part maybe needed to sort out the problem you would need to carry that, if you were going to help them sort it out at that time, most members know that they can come to the Nano meet for health checks, and are willing to wait in fact quite a few have an health check at every meet

Stick as you are is my opinion and help out at the Nano with your VT4 in fact we could have a talk about using my full T4 at the Nano to help cover Duncan.

Hi Steve. Regarding the possible bricking of cars, that is the last thing I would want to happen. Programming things in is one thing that does always get me nervous. I always check beforehand that all VINs match, all ZCS codes match and that it can talk to every ECU beforehand. I haven't had one go wrong yet.

Would it be safest to say if I were to go on the map I could offer free health checks and that be all? That way everyone would feel comfortable that nothing is being written to the car only read? So no chance of bricking unless the car already has a fault present. Only the same as a garage plugging a code reader in.

We can have a talk about the Nano T4 next time I see you, I wouldn't have a problem assisting Duncan. The main issue with mine is the laptop running out of battery

26th August 2018, 09:23	#1
Jamiewelch Posted a thing or two Alpina D3 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Cheslyn hay Posts: 1,002 Thanks: 58 Thanked 294 Times in 227 Posts	Try to help but get told to pay traders fees? Every time there has been something I have wanted to try and help with on this forum in the past, I have been reluctant to do so because as soon as someone does they get told they have to pay traders fees! Right so, I have the VT4, can do ZCS coding, 116 to 135, 160 to 177. And coding in things such as BBUS, Cruise etc. This is not my main source on income, and would only be able to do it occasionally if someone really needed it doing. I saw the T4 map had gone up so got in touch with Steve about going on the map (can't fault the guy, this post isn't aimed at him in any way!). To be told that the people higher up have said that I can't be listed because I don't pay traders fees. Just to make it clear, I wouldn't be pushing services, wouldn't be putting threads up saying I offer this and that. All I wanted was to be put on the map as there isn't really anyone around the midlands that is offering to plug a T4 into peoples cars. I just thought it would be nice for people around here to know that someone is more local if they wanted something as simple as giving the car a quick health check. Testing fan speeds. Checking injector compensation etc. With this club quite often if anyone tries to offer something to people they immediately get told to stop or pay traders fees. I didn't think the point of a car club is for people to make money? I thought it was to try and help each other with common issues and sources to parts. And possible ways to have parts re-manufactured that are no longer available. Does everyone think that this is a fair thing to do?

26th August 2018, 09:27	#2
Bogbrush82 I really should get out more....... BMW X3 2.0D Join Date: May 2017 Location: Tipton Posts: 2,383 Thanks: 51 Thanked 765 Times in 421 Posts	I assumed you only had to pay traders fees it it WAS a main source of income? __________________ Current car: BMW x3 2.0d (The one with the M47 engine!) Rolled off the line on December 14th, 2004.

26th August 2018, 09:50	#4
GordyB Gets stuck in ZT, ZT-T Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Brigg Posts: 932 Thanks: 505 Thanked 313 Times in 160 Posts	I think there has to be some common sense. It depends on how you are setup, what you are charging and how much work you are doing. There's a big difference between doing 1 car a month to help someone out for a tenner or a pack of beers, to someone setup properly with trade insurance, public liability insurance and charging the same as other T4 guys. I don't think it's anything to do with main source of income as some of the T4 guys have other jobs as well. A lot of the traders don't make much money from it but their fees help the club survive. What we don't want, is for someone such as yourself to not offer services as he is paying more in traders fees than he is making helping people, thus the help to people in your area wouldn't be there because of the club rules. All just my opinion of course, I've no idea how the rules are made/changed or why they were put in force in the first place. __________________ Gordon https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...73f7538906.jpg 2001 Connie SE Raven Black, CDT - scrapped 2004 ZT-T+ XPG, 1.8T - sold 2002 ZT+ Biomorphic Supertallic #2 of 10, CDT - sold 2004 ZT-T+ Goodwood Aquamarine, CDT - sold 2004 BMW 320d

26th August 2018, 10:10	#7
sworks Been absent for a while… Rover 75 Tourer, Classic mini Cooper S, Abarth 595 competizione, MG TF and a Hyundai Tucson PHEV Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cumbria Posts: 13,065 Thanks: 1,033 Thanked 1,686 Times in 1,040 Posts	The rules tend to be quite strict, I’m guessing that it’s not how little you do but the fact that for every car you look at a trader who pays to advertise isn’t getting that custom. With this post everybody now knows that you have a T4 and where you are located so I’m guessing you will get pm’s anyway. __________________ ................................................. 'Marmite' Possibly one of the most famous 75 tourers produced! left the production line as the last of only Three Rover 75 tourers produced in Trophy Yellow. 48 hours later Longbridge closed. The last sold ordered 75 Tourer. Paid for by the Phoenix Four and handed over by John Towers to the Warwickshire Northampton Air ambulance service as a Rapid Response vehicle

26th August 2018, 10:17	#9
Arctic Give to Learn Freelander 2 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: West Midlands Posts: 18,716 Thanks: 1,155 Thanked 6,407 Times in 3,874 Posts	Jamie I have my T4 and can do everything with as you can with your VT4, it never see the light of day unless I am using it on my car, but as I stated on the thread to which the MAP is attached it is not for commercial use. Also you have to be careful as once you are on the MAP you may well get an influx of members whom might need help, how would you cope ? you know your self you can not do everything for free, also you would need in place the aftercare if something was to go wrong. I doubt a member whom came to your house is going to sign a disclaimer as they do at the Nano if the session was to go wrong and it can happen, what if the car got bricked. The member would need his car to put back as it was before, sometimes a part maybe needed to sort out the problem you would need to carry that, if you were going to help them sort it out at that time, most members know that they can come to the Nano meet for health checks, and are willing to wait in fact quite a few have an health check at every meet Stick as you are is my opinion and help out at the Nano with your VT4 in fact we could have a talk about using my full T4 at the Nano to help cover Duncan. __________________ Arctic Givology Learn to Give Everything is Achievable ad altiora tendo. Check out our Nano meet dates http://www.midlandsnanomeets.co.uk/ http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/index.php?thepage=howto " You do the work , we supply the expertise "

26th August 2018, 09:50	#8
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,550 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	I would have thought it is pretty obvious that if you want to trade on this forum you have to pay traders' fees full stop. If you just want to help out on the forum then offer your services for free - many of us do.