Handbrake shoe retaining pins pulled through

Comfortably Numb · 23rd October 2018, 23:09

Has anyone else had this problem? Investigating, for this year's MoT, why the offside wheel made virtually no handbrake effort (it seems to have been like that since I bought it with a new MoT last year), I discovered, once I got the disc/drum off, that the short retaining springs were in bits and the push and turn pins were very bent and not in their holes. I straightened the pins, but found the holes in the backplate were cross shaped and the pins just pulled out. The back plates are not particularly rusty. I have had loads of old cars, never had this problem. I do know that I have found plenty of cack-handed repairs, mainly to trim clips etc, apparently done by the previous owner's "mechanic" son, but I can't understand how he has managed this one. One good thing though, I have discovered, having greased the adjusters, that it is perfectly possible to adjust the handbrake by removing just one wheel bolt, and aligning the hole, while wearing a head torch. Removing the disc/drums allowed me to understand the layout of the components, so I knew what I was looking at through the hole. Handbrake is now solid on the 3rd click, and I could pull it to 4 clicks if needed. I removed the nut on the cable adjuster (over 30mm of thread showing- tightened hard against the squared part by numpte mechanic), and put in a 15mm spacer - probably unnecessary after fully adjusting the shoes, - but it saves about 10 minutes of spannering! What a stupid design, just like the size and position of the rear caliper bolts - the easy one came off with a 1/2" spanner, the seized one needed chiselling loose, after I'd failed to get enough purchase with a 12mm open ender hammered onto it. Couldn't get a socket straight onto it. Bad design.

Comfortably Numb · 23rd October 2018, 23:17

PS Fitted the the shoes and retaining springs with machine screws, washers, - and nuts behind the backplate.

ZedTeeT · 24th October 2018, 07:29

A fairly common issue now our cars are getting older. Seems like you managed to get around it though, sounds ok to me. If it all works ok then it's a good job well jobbed.

championdaddy · 24th October 2018, 07:34

Unless the back plate is completely shot......... get some of these behind it.

Well............ not now as you have done it..... but if you hadn't........... LOL

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-sho...E8LJ:rk:2:pf:0

trikey · 24th October 2018, 09:31

What you will find is that the backplates these days are wafer thin compared to older cars, I’m pretty sure you could make four rover backplates from one off a Ford Sierra!

Heddy · 24th October 2018, 11:14

It may be possible to adjust the h/brake with just one wheel bolt removed, I have trouble with the wheel off! I'd think you'd get better leverage on the knurled adjuster with the wheel removed. I've also found it useful to hit the drums between adjustments, better with wheel off. To go the extra mile I remove the callipers so pad drag isn't confused with shoe drag.

KWIL · 24th October 2018, 11:31

On an old car I had, the studs were inserted from the rear and the retainer was a dished washer with the cutouts that matched the stud "ears". These would work if they are still available.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brake-Shoe-.../dp/B00CS0W6UC

This is what I was thinking about but I do not know whether they will sit on the springs squarely!!

Jim Jamieson · 24th October 2018, 14:14

I fitted studs with nylon nuts on the end as you don’t want them fully tightened against the back plate, you must allow the shoe some movement to do it’s job.

clf · 24th October 2018, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWIL

On an old car I had, the studs were inserted from the rear and the retainer was a dished washer with the cutouts that matched the stud "ears". These would work if they are still available.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brake-Shoe-.../dp/B00CS0W6UC

This is what I was thinking about but I do not know whether they will sit on the springs squarely!!

They do sit squarely and do work. I have them on mine. I think sierra/fiesta pins work. 46mm is in my head but don't quote me lol.

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

Comfortably Numb · 24th October 2018, 18:42

Thanks for the replies, guys. It would appear that this is a common problem, then. I used square nuts on the ends of my make-shift retaining screws, only tightened enough to provide a bit of spring pressure - the nuts seemed to locate in part of the back plate pressing, so hopefully the screws wont wind out and let go - one to keep an eye on until I get some proper springs, and old style washers and longer pins. In theory, the Rover method is easier than the old way. I remember springs and washers pinging off all round as I tried to press and turn the washer with pliers while holding the pin in from the back! Anyway, word from the MoT man - failed on 2 rusty brake pipes, 1 apparently leaking, 1 N/F indicator (I said tap it!), and squinty headlights. I said I'll leave it with them to fix - I hate doing rusty brake pipes! If the bill comes in at around £200, I'll be happy. Hopefully picking it up Friday, and enjoying the excuse to drive my Mitsubishi Delica L300 on the local lanes, where it tends to win the war of "Move Over onto the verge" with Chelsea tractors! The Rover prefers motorways and fast A and B roads and is more easily bullied on the lanes, despite my Mr McGoo impersonations!

23rd October 2018, 23:09	#1
Comfortably Numb Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Penrith Posts: 1,336 Thanks: 165 Thanked 303 Times in 241 Posts	Handbrake shoe retaining pins pulled through Has anyone else had this problem? Investigating, for this year's MoT, why the offside wheel made virtually no handbrake effort (it seems to have been like that since I bought it with a new MoT last year), I discovered, once I got the disc/drum off, that the short retaining springs were in bits and the push and turn pins were very bent and not in their holes. I straightened the pins, but found the holes in the backplate were cross shaped and the pins just pulled out. The back plates are not particularly rusty. I have had loads of old cars, never had this problem. I do know that I have found plenty of cack-handed repairs, mainly to trim clips etc, apparently done by the previous owner's "mechanic" son, but I can't understand how he has managed this one. One good thing though, I have discovered, having greased the adjusters, that it is perfectly possible to adjust the handbrake by removing just one wheel bolt, and aligning the hole, while wearing a head torch. Removing the disc/drums allowed me to understand the layout of the components, so I knew what I was looking at through the hole. Handbrake is now solid on the 3rd click, and I could pull it to 4 clicks if needed. I removed the nut on the cable adjuster (over 30mm of thread showing- tightened hard against the squared part by numpte mechanic), and put in a 15mm spacer - probably unnecessary after fully adjusting the shoes, - but it saves about 10 minutes of spannering! What a stupid design, just like the size and position of the rear caliper bolts - the easy one came off with a 1/2" spanner, the seized one needed chiselling loose, after I'd failed to get enough purchase with a 12mm open ender hammered onto it. Couldn't get a socket straight onto it. Bad design.

24th October 2018, 07:29	#3
ZedTeeT Gets stuck in MG ZT-T Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Horsham Posts: 874 Thanks: 197 Thanked 239 Times in 207 Posts	A fairly common issue now our cars are getting older. Seems like you managed to get around it though, sounds ok to me. If it all works ok then it's a good job well jobbed. __________________ My garage. 03/53 MG ZT-T+ CDTi auto in XPG. 232k and much to do! 21/21 MG ZS ev. Daily. 85/C Capri 2.8i Special. Mine 29+ years. 82/X Talbot Tagora SX V6. Restoration project. 11/11 Hyundai I Load CRDi. Van....... nuff said.

24th October 2018, 09:31	#5
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,769 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	What you will find is that the backplates these days are wafer thin compared to older cars, I’m pretty sure you could make four rover backplates from one off a Ford Sierra! __________________ Lest we forget..

24th October 2018, 11:31	#7
KWIL Precise Rover 75 Tourer 2.5KV6 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Fleet Posts: 2,954 Thanks: 630 Thanked 617 Times in 480 Posts	On an old car I had, the studs were inserted from the rear and the retainer was a dished washer with the cutouts that matched the stud "ears". These would work if they are still available. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brake-Shoe-.../dp/B00CS0W6UC This is what I was thinking about but I do not know whether they will sit on the springs squarely!! Last edited by KWIL; 24th October 2018 at 14:13..

23rd October 2018, 23:17	#2
Comfortably Numb Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Penrith Posts: 1,336 Thanks: 165 Thanked 303 Times in 241 Posts	PS Fitted the the shoes and retaining springs with machine screws, washers, - and nuts behind the backplate.

24th October 2018, 07:34	#4
championdaddy This is my second home Mg Zt 190 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: The FIRST Garden City....Letchworth. Posts: 6,778 Thanks: 1,243 Thanked 920 Times in 698 Posts	Unless the back plate is completely shot......... get some of these behind it. Well............ not now as you have done it..... but if you hadn't........... LOL https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-sho...E8LJ:rk:2:pf:0

24th October 2018, 11:14	#6
Heddy This is my second home None Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: None Posts: 5,556 Thanks: 465 Thanked 1,161 Times in 924 Posts	It may be possible to adjust the h/brake with just one wheel bolt removed, I have trouble with the wheel off! I'd think you'd get better leverage on the knurled adjuster with the wheel removed. I've also found it useful to hit the drums between adjustments, better with wheel off. To go the extra mile I remove the callipers so pad drag isn't confused with shoe drag.

24th October 2018, 14:14	#8
Jim Jamieson This is my second home Rover less ! Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Tarbolton Posts: 3,442 Thanks: 393 Thanked 888 Times in 542 Posts	I fitted studs with nylon nuts on the end as you don’t want them fully tightened against the back plate, you must allow the shoe some movement to do it’s job.

24th October 2018, 18:42	#10
Comfortably Numb Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Penrith Posts: 1,336 Thanks: 165 Thanked 303 Times in 241 Posts	Thanks for the replies, guys. It would appear that this is a common problem, then. I used square nuts on the ends of my make-shift retaining screws, only tightened enough to provide a bit of spring pressure - the nuts seemed to locate in part of the back plate pressing, so hopefully the screws wont wind out and let go - one to keep an eye on until I get some proper springs, and old style washers and longer pins. In theory, the Rover method is easier than the old way. I remember springs and washers pinging off all round as I tried to press and turn the washer with pliers while holding the pin in from the back! Anyway, word from the MoT man - failed on 2 rusty brake pipes, 1 apparently leaking, 1 N/F indicator (I said tap it!), and squinty headlights. I said I'll leave it with them to fix - I hate doing rusty brake pipes! If the bill comes in at around £200, I'll be happy. Hopefully picking it up Friday, and enjoying the excuse to drive my Mitsubishi Delica L300 on the local lanes, where it tends to win the war of "Move Over onto the verge" with Chelsea tractors! The Rover prefers motorways and fast A and B roads and is more easily bullied on the lanes, despite my Mr McGoo impersonations!